Rewrite Your Money Story. Yanely Espinal

Bob Wheeler (01:29.158)
I think we’re going to have a great conversation, but I want to jump to in your book, Mind Your Money, you describe vividly remembering using your family’s EBT card at the bodega as a child. And I’m wondering, like even now when you think back, does it bring up any emotions or is that just like, oh, that’s behind me? And how did that shape your relationship with money early on?

Yanely (01:39.598)
That’s right.

Yanely (01:48.206)
Thanks for watching!

Yeah, you know, it’s so interesting. When I was a kid, I didn’t recognize the meaning of having to have support from the government because you are below the poverty line. Those things didn’t connect for me. It was just like, this must be what everybody has at home, a card that helps you buy groceries. I don’t think that you recognize how different you are from others because you’re surrounded by people usually that are just like you. And that kind of is the same across all

you know, some of my wealthier friends in college, like they also lived in neighborhoods where everybody around them was wealthy. So they didn’t know about what it looks like to live below the poverty line. So I think for me, I thought it was very normal. I just thought everybody has one of these and I often saw everybody around me at the supermarket also paying for groceries with EBT cards. But I did notice like a lot of changes within the system. And that was kind of when I woke up to it, probably like middle school age, I started to notice things were changing. Because when I was a little younger,

there were actual coupons, like food stamp coupons. You have to cut them out of the booklet to go and buy stuff. And then once I got a little older, they started to digitize the system. The food stamps became a digital card. And then now it’s a completely different name. It’s like temporary assistance for needy families.

They don’t call it food stamps anymore. So I think I started to notice there’s this larger system at play when it comes to money and when it comes to supporting families that like it was bigger than me. So yeah, I mean, now I definitely don’t think.

on it as anything that’s like behind me because my parents are very much still below the poverty line. They’re both retired and never have retirement accounts. And so my siblings and I are actively supporting them, but they still do get support when it comes to paying for food every month.

Bob Wheeler (03:31.806)
Yeah. And do you remember like when you like realizing you were different or that not everybody, I don’t want to say different, but not everybody gets these cards. Was there any point where you said, oh man, I’m not worthy or there’s some shame here or I’m embarrassed? Or was it more like, oh, okay. Like what was that like?

Yanely (03:41.504)
Bye.

Yanely (03:48.91)
Hmm. Yeah.

Yanely (03:54.726)
I think there was shame. There was definitely a lot of shame and embarrassment, more so just the fact that other people were going to see me this way and perceive me maybe differently. That didn’t start for me up until high school because I remember different applications for different things like field trips or the college application process, all of that stuff. There were usually voucher programs for the families that couldn’t afford to pay either pay the class trip fees or pay for the college application fees.

I mean, each college application was like $80 each up hop. So if I wanted to apply to 10 colleges, 80 times 10, that’s $800 that I had to come up with. Where was I supposed to get $800? It’s wild to me that these barriers are still often in place and people don’t think that that’s unusual, right? But I just remember having to go line up and get to the financial aid office or actually talk to the college advisors who would help with financial aid. And they were the ones that said like, listen.

You don’t need to be ashamed. You don’t need to feel embarrassed that these programs are here to help you, right? To make sure that you are on an equal playing field with all the other students who don’t need that. And I think that was the moment where I realized like, yeah, I don’t need to feel so much shame and embarrassment because what’s happening is I’m just, I’m getting, it’s equal in the playing field, right?

It’s allowing me to submit my application just like my friends are submitting theirs with no issue, right? Like it’s just allowing me to have the same equal opportunity. And so, um, yeah, I think I kind of started to change my mindset around that in college and stop being.

so full of like shame when it comes to asking for help.

Bob Wheeler (05:23.594)
Yeah, I think that’s awesome that you had people supporting you and naming, because I think, you know, at least me in high school and junior high and stuff, I was always worried, what are other people thinking? And so if somebody saw me asking for help, even if I knew it was okay, they’re judging me. And so I would be internalizing what I was thinking other people were judging.

Yanely (05:27.414)
Yeah.

Yanely (05:34.733)
Yeah.

Yanely (05:38.87)
Right, right.

Yanely (05:43.51)
Absolutely. And when you’re younger, it’s not even so much judging. It’s actually like bullying, like straight up bullying. Like when I was in middle school, if you didn’t have certain name brand sneakers, you were made fun of. Like you were really bullied hard. And so for me, it was actively trying to stay safe and not be either, you know, verbally abused or physically beat up. Like I was just trying to stay like out of the way of the bullies and like of the constant negative, you know, talk. And I think that happens when you’re younger.

you know, middle school and high school, like you’re so concerned with your social status and where you fit in on the like popularity scale that a lot of that stuff just consumes you so much that you don’t realize that there’s so much more layers to people than what you see, you know, on the surface.

Bob Wheeler (06:25.63)
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I’m wondering, as you take that into college, you were a, a first gen, uh, daughter of immigrants. Um, you’re going to Ivy league school. Um, and was there. Like any emotional challenges there or around mindset or, and even though people are saying we’re helping you play, you know, level the playing field, you’re walking into a school where kids are driving Mercedes and they’re

Yanely (06:36.791)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (06:53.434)
all wearing at least because I went into a pseudo Ivy league school where everybody was very, very rich. And I’m just wondering, you know, how you stayed without taking yourself out and like what challenges you had when you’re seeing people with all this wealth and all this access.

Yanely (06:58.467)
Yeah.

Yanely (07:10.742)
You know, I’m not gonna lie, I didn’t gravitate towards people who obviously had wealth. It’s interesting, because like now I think back and I’m like, what I should have done was rub elbows with all the rich kids. Like, what was I doing? I was a wasted opportunity. But what I did was I actually immediately started to look for my tribe, my community, the people that understand and get what I’m going through. And that was like.

fellow first gen students, other students who also are the first to go to college or the first generation to live in the United States. Maybe they’re first generation, you know, investors or first generation entrepreneurs. Like there’s so many things that make you the first having to figure something or tackle something like on your own for the first time. That experience I think is like so unique and like connecting with others that were like me in that way. It really helped me to ground myself and find like a little bit of like a family vibe there.

And so having my friends who also came from low-income families, who also just understood the struggle, who weren’t like, you know, balling out of control, shopping all the time, getting whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, it just made me realize I’m not alone. Even though sometimes it feels like I’m alone because I look around and most kids are really wealthy and really rich. Like, that’s not everybody. There’s a small group of us here that are, you know, we can, you know, use each other as support and like be there for each other.

And so having that friend group really, really helped me. Like in my book, I call it, Find Your Tribe. And I think that helps with finance too. Like when I started getting a lot of credit card debt and trying to figure out how to pay off my debt and learn about personal finances, I also had to find my tribe of people who were also in that same mentality. Like, okay, we’re also gonna try to pay off debt. We’re also gonna try to do things a bit differently and be smarter with money. So I think the people around you, that little community and the vibe of relying on your community and having support.

Knowing you’re not alone, that can be really, really powerful.

Bob Wheeler (09:03.658)
Yeah, I think that’s so important. And, you know, we talk about this a lot in finance. There’s not a lot of, you know, a lot of people in the finance industry, older white guys, and there’s not a lot of, hey, they look like me. And so I think what you’re talking about, finding your tribe, whether it’s people that look like you, people that resonate with you, if you don’t see people that look like you and you don’t see that warm welcome, keep looking, right? Cause they’re there. You may have to,

Yanely (09:14.187)
Yeah.

Yanely (09:24.174)
Yeah.

Yanely (09:31.455)
Yes.

Bob Wheeler (09:33.266)
overturn a couple of stones and find your tribe. But I think it’s so easy for a lot of people to say, well, I don’t see anybody welcoming me into this. I think I’ll just, I won’t play the game.

Yanely (09:43.042)
Yes.

Right. But you know, the good point that you bring up is like, you almost feel like inclined to like ignore all of the others and like look for your people, which is kind of the mistake I made in college. And when it comes to money and personal finance, I do not recommend that. Some of the things that I feel like had transformed my life the most when it comes to money came from books written by older white men. They changed my life in a positive way. J.L. Collins, The Simple Path to Wealth. What? Where would I be without that book? Right? Like The Millionaire

Yanely (10:15.558)
are so transformational, the information is so powerful, and if you actually put it into practice, you can transform your life. However, there needs to be space for all of us. It shouldn’t be only older white men and nobody else in the space. So like you said, like go and look beyond. Those are really helpful resources. Don’t overlook them, don’t ignore them.

take what you can from them, but also in addition, it’s additive, it’s not subtractive. It’s not like, oh, I’m just gonna ignore all these, oh, wait, I’m only gonna find resources from women and from people of color only. Well, now you’re limiting yourself the way I limited myself in college when I didn’t mix and mingle with wealthier kids. That’s…

That’s a great opportunity for you to have a cross-cultural understanding and for you to be able to understand what they’re going through that’s different from you and also expose them to what you’re going through, which helps them understand that everybody’s not so wealthy like that. So I think it has to be this cross-pollination thing where we’re looking for resources in every aspect, every pocket, every space from every voice, because diversity is important in all these areas.

It’s not just one and it’s so important not to overlook or ignore certain resources.

Bob Wheeler (11:22.342)
Yeah. I love that you say that, that we don’t have to subtract the other information. Multiple perspectives is so important. And yes, maybe this one had a little bit more voice more so than others. There’s still some value there. We don’t have to take that away, but let’s also bring in the other flavors that gives it some real richness and just really appreciating all the different perspectives. Yeah. I love it. So you…

Yanely (11:30.189)
Yes.

Yanely (11:37.442)
Yeah.

Yanely (11:47.082)
Yeah, and experiences. They love that.

Bob Wheeler (11:52.166)
mentioned that you never dared complain to your parents about wanting material things. What held you back from expressing those feelings and how did you process the envy or sense of scarcity internally?

Yanely (12:05.686)
You know, I think that it’s still to this day, I feel these feelings with my parents, like, I just feel so guilty. I feel so guilty. And I don’t think that’s ever gonna go away, even after they’re long gone. I mean, I just think about our lives side to side, just one generation apart. You know, my parents grew up in rural Dominican Republic, in the middle of the mountains. I mean…

they didn’t have running water plumbing. Like they were using the bathroom in these tiny little holes in the ground, like in Dominican they call it eletrina. And here I am using toilets that are super nice, you can flush them, you don’t have to worry about boobin’ in the ground. Just the differences in the way that your lifestyle looks, what you have access to. Running water, which we take for granted in the United States every day when we turn on the water and sometimes let it run too long, right?

So I constantly compare their life growing up in a developing country and what they didn’t have access to. And then my life here and all of the things that I’ve had access to. Now granted, I’ve been, you know, I’m in this country, I’m definitely like less fortunate and I’ve had a difficult experience and I’ve been under the poverty level here in the US, but going from like poverty in a developing country and coming to poverty in the US, that is an upgrade, a significant upgrade.

And so that came with so much guilt for me of like, dang, you know, my mom and dad never got to go beyond the third or fourth grade in school. They couldn’t, they had to stop and they had to go work on farmland to help my grandparents like actually have, you know, money to, to sustain their family. So growing crops and taking care of animals on a farm, you know, they didn’t get a chance to go jump rope or like run and play tag, you know, like, and then I think about my childhood, I’m like,

I was jumping double Dutch and you know, playing hopscotch and running up and down the block, playing all the games, right?

Bob Wheeler (13:52.482)
Hahaha

Yanely (13:55.638)
So there’s this freedom and this different, I think just like experience that I’ve had that they never had a chance to live that makes me feel so guilty. Like, why did I deserve this and they didn’t? They’re amazing. My mom is one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. She deserved what I’ve lived better and even better. She deserves the world.

So why is it that just this random lottery that is us being born in the generation that we’re born in the country that we’re born in, the zip code that we’re born to, the parents that we’re born to, it just so happened that the cards that they were dealt were, you know,

pretty difficult. And so that guilt is always with me. So when I look at them and I think like, oh man, I’m not going to put more burdens on their life. I’m only going to do things that are going to take away from their burden and add peace to their lives. So when they come visit me now, I’ve been living in Miami for a few years, they’re in New York. Every time it gets a little cold in New York, I’m like, do y’all want to come visit me in Miami? You know, I’ll get their tickets so they can come. They stay with me.

I’ll rent a little boat and we’ll go on the water. I was like, mom, look, that’s J.Lo’s house. Mom’s like, what? That’s J.Lo’s house. I want them to experience just these nice things, a little bit of luxury. I’m not talking anything flashy or fancy, but they just deserve the world in my opinion. And I just wanna be able to give them, even if it’s just a little bit of peace at the end of their days, that’s why I wanna make sure I don’t add any burden to their lives.

Bob Wheeler (15:14.974)
No, I can really appreciate that and I hear that. And, you know, I, but I, and I also appreciate that, right? We can have the guilt and we don’t let it debilitate us. We don’t let it take us out. So we don’t now operate in complete. I must self-flagellate. I must punish myself. Yeah, I’m gonna fill the guilt and I’m gonna keep striving to have a better life and do what I can to help. And I know for me, like,

Yanely (15:26.986)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (15:44.034)
there are certain things in my life. I’m probably never gonna get over my scarcity mindset, but I don’t let it control my life. I’m just, oh, there’s that again, silly, and then move on. And so I just appreciate that piece of, yeah, it wasn’t fair. I’m not gonna, I feel guilty, but I’m not gonna destroy my life because then that would be sort of dishonoring what your parents wanted for you, which was a better life.

Yanely (15:53.806)
Yeah.

Yanely (16:11.526)
I love the phrasing of that. Yes, it would be a complete dishonor to all the hard work that they’ve done and everything that they put time and effort into their super hard working job. I mean, they worked such backbreaking, laboring jobs to make sure that I could go to college so that I could live here in this country. And so yeah, I mean, I love the phrasing of that. And I think that beyond that too, it’s just constantly checking in with yourself so you can be aware of those biases.

quick to jump to these places, right? Like the scarcity mindset, right? That’s a bias that we just automatically think that because we’ve experienced scarcity that there’s always gonna be scarcity. And so our brains just play these tricks on us. And I don’t think it’s anybody’s fault in particular because I do think that like we all experience things that inform the way our brains work and how they think,

but we do have the power to change that. In my book in chapter two, I talk all about getting your mind right. The chapter is called, get your mind right. And it’s all about like,

First of all, learning what are the mental biases that we’re so prone to as humans, right? Let’s learn them first, name them. Let’s be able to name them, right? Then once we can name them and identify them, when they happen in our brains, we can do that thing that you said, like, oh, that’s that scarcity thing. There it is. There’s an example of scarcity mindset popping up. I got to check myself. I have to counter that with statements, manifestations, right? Doing practices and things that will help me.

check myself and change direction in my mind to more positive thoughts. Because the reality is that’s where it starts to fester. You get into these biases, you get in these habits with your brain tricking you to think this way all the time. And then now you don’t understand why you’re festering in depression in your apartment and taking on more debt and not really putting a plan in place. And it’s like, it all starts up here in your mind.

So I love that you said like, you know, you got to flag it and be like, oh, that’s that scarcity thing. Because if you can’t name it and can identify it, then you definitely can’t change it.

Bob Wheeler (18:05.758)
Yeah, absolutely. Got to name it to claim it. And I, you know, for me, it’s, you know, okay, so I’ve got guilt. So I’ve got scarcity. So I’ve got fear. It’s not, these aren’t bad things. Like I have to get a real assessment, right? I’ve got to know what I’m working with so that what I can learn to do is respond instead of react, because if I’m unconscious, I’m reacting, I’m reacting, I’m reacting. If I’m able to say, oh, there’s scarcity. Oh, there’s guilt.

Oh, there’s envy. Let’s just breathe into it a moment. All right. That’s a story. It’s not my truth, but it’s my go-to if I’m not conscious.

Yanely (18:46.414)
Absolutely. And I think that’s hard because we’re moving to a more and more fast paced society every day. Right? I mean, when I started creating content on YouTube back in 2015, the algorithms for the social platforms were like eight to 10 minute videos are prioritized on the platform. Now it’s these shorts that are like 10 seconds to 30 seconds long. It’s like, get the point in and get it fast. How much context can you really give in 30 seconds? But yet…

that this is what we’re moving to every day. We want faster, immediate. If I click on something and it takes more than three seconds to load, I’m going to move to something else. I mean, this immediacy, it’s so dangerous because the only way we can really protect our minds, our brains, our thoughts, and be in control of them is to have the power to pause and reflect and think, why am I feeling this? What’s going on?

you know, and let me assess. And you can’t do that when you’re speeding and rushing and everything is super immediate. I mean, you just don’t have the time and the space. So for me, especially being a New Yorker, I mean, I grew up where it’s like, move out of my way. I got places to be, I gotta hop on this train. If you make me miss my train, I’m gonna punch you in the face.

You better move out of my way. You know, it’s like this hustle and bustle and everybody talks fast and walks fast. And that’s definitely running through the blood in my veins. It always will be, but I’ve had to train myself.

Bob Wheeler (19:45.81)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (19:53.501)
Mm-mm-mm-mm. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (19:58.875)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (20:06.196)
Yeah.

Yanely (20:09.23)
to slow down because it’s the biggest gift you can give yourself.

Bob Wheeler (20:14.194)
Yeah, because at that speed, you’re only going to feel anxiety because you’re so busy trying to keep up with the, yeah. I, you know, it’s just, yeah. First time I went to New York, I grew up in a small town in the South. So I went, oh, this is too fast. I’m going to, I’m going to get run over LA. It was least for me, LA was a little slower, even though it’s pretty crazy fast pace, but not like New York, not like New York.

Yanely (20:18.526)
Oh yes, 100%.

Yanely (20:27.254)
Ha ha!

Yanely (20:33.838)
Yeah, yeah, no, not like New York at all. It’s so funny that reminds me of when I first went to college. I got to campus and when I’m probably the first few weeks of my freshman year, I walked into this little convenience store to buy something. And I look, I grew up in New York where you walk into a bodega and you just say what you want. You don’t have time to do the small talk thing. People don’t want to. They don’t. They just say, what do you need? What you want? What can I get you?

And so I remember I walked into this little convenience store and this is in Providence, Rhode Island. So I’m not like super small town, but like it’s a small city. So I walked in and I was like, Oh, can you give me a bottle of this, that? And then the woman at the counter was like, Hello sweetie, how’s your day going? How are you doing today? And I was just like, Oh, like, sorry, I’m from New York. We don’t do that. You know, I don’t. So I had to really like, yeah, like I had to train myself, like stop.

Bob Wheeler (21:01.331)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (21:21.629)
We ain’t got time.

Yanely (21:25.534)
Like, why are you, what is pause? Look at this person, right? Recognize their humanity, say hello. How’s your day going? It doesn’t cost you more than 30, 40 seconds in the grand scheme of things. You got time. So I just, yeah, it’s funny how the thing of your mindset, the way it shifts and changes when you operate that way and you really have to change it from your brain from top all the way down.

Bob Wheeler (21:38.183)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (21:49.494)
That’s funny. I ended up getting a vacation house out in the desert and people are very high. How are you? And I’m, Hey, I got stuff to do. Don’t waste my time. But they’re, Oh, well, you know, it seems like, yeah, no, I don’t care. Yeah. It had to slow down and go, Oh, what? Right. Recognize their humanity for sure. Um, sometimes that’s hard when we’re spinning so quickly. It does. It does. So you had a shopping addiction, um, tied to emotions.

Yanely (22:02.355)
No, no, no.

Yanely (22:06.154)
Yes, yes. Yes, go, go like the energizer bunny. Yes.

Bob Wheeler (22:18.246)
Walk me through what led you to compulsively shop. How are you feeling before, during, and after? And when did you realize it wasn’t healthy?

Yanely (22:21.698)
Yeah.

Yanely (22:27.242)
Oof. So it started in college probably because that was the first time that I actually had like access to money that wasn’t my parents. It wasn’t mine either. It was credit card. But in my mind, the credit card had my name on it. So it was my money. You know, it makes sense at 18. So I just started going to the Providence Place mall, you know, Forever 21 H&M. They got all my money. I would just go in and just walk up and down through the aisles. It just felt so much better than

Bob Wheeler (22:37.884)
Right.

Bob Wheeler (22:41.268)
Exactly.

Yanely (22:56.346)
sitting around in my dorm or feeling bored or constantly comparing myself to everybody else and recognizing I didn’t have what they had. So it’s a little bit of retail therapy that I just wanted to feel better about myself and feel like I wasn’t that different from all these other kids. I could go buy some things too. And so I started with my credit card buying laptop and my textbooks and school supplies, paying my lab fees. But once I realized how easy it was to use the credit card to pay for things, I was like,

That’s when I started going to the mall, right? And so, and Chipotle and Starbucks and Ben and Jerry’s and it just kept going. So because I was just in the habit of mindlessly walking into places, whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, didn’t think about it, didn’t have a budget, didn’t have to cross check to see, did I account for this? When am I gonna pay it back? How much is it gonna cost? None of that, just didn’t, none of that was part of my practice.

My practice was open the door to the store, walk in, look around, oh, this is on sale, cute. Oh, I like that. Boom, add it to my cart and buy it.

So it continued after I graduated college, I became a classroom teacher in Brooklyn and New York where I grew up and then I just would do the same thing. I would go to work and on my way to work, I would stop by the bakery or the bodega or anything that I wanted. Again, no cross checking a budget, no thought around like, can I afford this? Is this in my plan? Because there was no plan. So I would just buy stuff and shopping and trips and all the things. Being 21 in New York City.

was very different from being a poor 12 year old in New York City. I could go to a Yankees games. I could go to a Broadway show. I could go to events at Central Park. I mean, I could hop on the subway and be anywhere. And some of the world’s top renowned events and places are right there that I never had access to as a kid because my parents just didn’t know about it or because we just didn’t have the money. So yeah, in my 20s, it just got worse and worse and worse, my shopping problem.

Bob Wheeler (24:25.695)
Right.

Yanely (24:52.054)
So finally kind of paused one day when I was going through all my credit card statements with a highlighter. This I got from Susie Orman, uh, women and money. She says, pull up your 90 days of your credit card statements and checking account statements and with different color highlighters. So I had like a pink highlighter, yellow, a green, a blue, and each category was a different color. So I started to notice the shopping.

Bob Wheeler (24:59.262)
Hahaha

Yanely (25:13.95)
was pink, everything pink, pink. It just kept coming up and the food, green, green. I’m like, oh my goodness, my whole, everything my spending is pink and green. All I’m doing is wasting my money on food and clothes. And is that really how I want my money to be spent? Does that like match what I care about the most, food and clothes? Like I have to really think carefully about that. And so that’s when I kind of decided I was going to stop. But I know I couldn’t trust myself because I mean, I had a shopping addiction.

So I put my credit cards and my debit card away in my closet and I left the house with my lunch packs, a bottle of water, some snacks, granola bar, little yogurt, my computer, my Metro, my Metro card for the train in New York city. So anything that I needed for work, my books, it was all in my bag and to get to and from my apartment, I had my Metro card to hop on the subway. So I didn’t need money for anything. And so I left the money home. And then one day I was leaving work.

And I walked right into like a CVS, right? And I start picking things up. I picked up some lotion, candle, some chapstick, you know, random stuff. And when I went to go pay, I did not have my money. Because I, I locked up my credit card and my debit card at home. So I was like, I made up some excuse to the merchant. I was like, oh, I’m so sorry. You know, like I left, I left my, my card in my car. I’ll be right back. I did not have a card. I never came back.

I was just so embarrassed and that moment for me was so powerful because it made me realize in my mind that I actually have a real serious problem. This is an addiction. When you’re doing something so mindlessly and you can’t stop yourself, you need help. You need external help. It’s not just something that you can change internally. So that was when I really dove into personal finance, blogs, podcasts, books, and just started to commit to really changing my financial mentality.

Bob Wheeler (27:07.762)
Yeah, I love that, the awareness piece, right? Getting aware and saying, oops, uh, I probably need to do it differently. Um, because otherwise you could spend a lifetime of debt, um, and then beating yourself up. So I, uh, and it’s so easy with credit cards. It’s so easy. It is so easy.

Yanely (27:15.125)
Yes.

Yanely (27:22.314)
Right, right.

Yanely (27:27.022)
I know, I know. Nowadays, it’s a little bit harder. It’s a little bit harder. I mean, back in the days I wrote in my book about this, but like when I was 18, any college campus had tents and tables set up and you would walk on a college campus and see credit card companies soliciting students, come get a free slice of pizza if you sign up for a credit card, come get a t-shirt, come get a frisbee, free pack of pens.

Bob Wheeler (27:44.627)
Oh yeah.

Yanely (27:51.658)
And that kind of stuff is actually completely illegal now. Like you cannot solicit credit cards to students on college campuses. And I think there’s like a radius of a certain number of miles in that, in that legislation. So because of the laws changing to protect younger consumers, this is why I’m so passionate about financial education, because where regulation is lacking, we need to come in and educate like, wow, because we have to fill that gap.

when there’s a lot of regulation, we can get away with a little less education because you know what, there’s consumer protections in place. But oftentimes I see them on a seesaw and I’m like, up, regulations going down, financial education better come up on that particular topic, especially where there’s predatory practices. Credit card industry has been a lot less predatory these days versus 10 years ago, but payday lending, that’s not any less predatory. So we got to educate on podcasts like this and books like the one I wrote.

Bob Wheeler (28:36.81)
That’s crazy.

Yanely (28:45.302)
These kinds of resources and conversations are what’s moving the needle, I would say.

Bob Wheeler (28:49.634)
Absolutely, and that piece of pizza that you thought was free cost you a lot of money. It was not free. In LA, we’re going to test your nerve real quick. We are going to test your nerve. Test your nerve is brought to you by The Money Nerve. And to our audience, what is your current money story costing you? Grab my ebook for just $1 and begin rewriting your financial future today. Check out the show notes for additional information.

Yanely (28:54.852)
That was not free. Yeah.

Yanely (29:01.942)
Cool.

Bob Wheeler (29:19.234)
All right, here we go. What’s one money saving hack you think everyone should know?

Yanely (29:25.942)
Automating your savings. I don’t even think about saving. I don’t even really do it myself. The computer does it for me. The phone, the apps do it for me. Use the bots and the algorithms to your benefit, right? Every time I get a direct deposit into my, whether that’s my personal account or my business account, immediately there’s an automatic transfer. 10, 15% immediately transfers out to a savings account.

Obviously I prefer like high yield savings accounts because you can grow your money more. But yeah, just automate that. Don’t even think about it. And I would also say this is not just for savings, but also taxes. Every time that I receive this, if I do 1099 contractor work, when I get that contract payment, I immediately take 25% of that and put it aside because I’m probably going to forget. And then when my tax bill comes, I’m…

I already spent that money. And so the more we can use automation to our advantage, the easier it’s gonna get for us. And you get to sleep a little easier at night.

Bob Wheeler (30:24.658)
Absolutely, absolutely. What’s the most out of character splurge you’ve made?

Yanely (30:29.526)
Oh my goodness, out of character. Oh, this is tough. I feel like everything that I splurge on is in character for me. I spend a lot of money on massages and that’s very much on brand for me because that’s my meditation and I also like work out a lot and stuff. So massages I’ve spent, oh man, probably the most expensive massage I’ve gotten was like $350 and it’s like a one hour deep tissue, spa experience massage, right? And I’ve told family members that, they’re like.

$350, are you crazy? And I’m like, but it’s because it’s self care and it really helps me, you know, and especially if it’s a really good quality massage. But I would say that’s in character for me. I don’t know, I’m not one of those people who are like, don’t ever spend your money on things. Like if it matters to you and it’s gonna really make an impact, as long as you budget for it, as long as it’s part of your plan, I’m not opposed to you spending a little more than you normally would and splurging here or there, but just make sure that you.

plan and bake that into your plan because otherwise it can get out of hand. But yeah, I think that’s probably shocking. I would say that if I spent $350 on massage and people always go like, oh, that is way too much. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (31:37.573)
That’s crazy! What motivates you on the days you feel like giving up?

Yanely (31:42.666)
Ooh, I think it’s just the idea that if I don’t move forward, I’m standing still or moving back. So the choice that I’m making is either I don’t want anything to change. I want to regress and move backwards, or I want to move forward. Those are your only choices. And I definitely don’t want to stay at a standstill and I definitely don’t want to regress. So it’s sort of like forcing my choice. I only have one choice, which is to progress, to move forward and to do better. And so

kind of, it’s a snap into reality every time. I’m like, oh, what if I just, you know, don’t go through my statements this month? What if I just stay sleeping this morning and don’t go to the gym? Or what if I just, you know, don’t help out with these financial things that my family’s got going on, leave it to someone else. And then I constantly remind myself, I’m making a choice to regress or to stand still. Is that the choice that I really wanna be making? And most 99.9% of the time, it’s no.

Bob Wheeler (32:36.222)
Yeah, no, and I think that’s great. And I just, you know, a reminder out there, sometimes doing everything the way you’re supposed to do, putting the money, automating, being responsible. It’s not always that sexy, but it’s not as fun. It’s more fun to go do that thing, but it pays long-term dividends when you say the course and you do the work. So, um, what are you currently saving up for anything?

Yanely (32:48.087)
Right.

Yanely (32:51.694)
for sure.

Yanely (32:57.44)
Absolutely.

Yanely (33:01.61)
Ooh, so I have not purchased real estate yet. I am in my early thirties and my family does have a house in Brooklyn, which is where my parents live. And we recently converted it to a cash flowing asset for my parents. So we moved them down to the lowest apartment and we have the top two floors are rented to tenants. And so that was my first endeavor into like…

real estate projects because I helped with the construction. I helped with like, we’re not actually doing the construction, but hiring contractors and like deciding what we were going to change and where we could improve things in the house and what would make it a better sell to tenants in that particular neighborhood. So I sort of started getting my toes wet a little bit with real estate. So right now I have an investment account that I, right now the name of it is I Love My Life. And that’s the one, every time I log in and I look at it, I Love My Life is at the top.

Bob Wheeler (33:51.563)
That’s great.

Yanely (33:51.57)
And when I started it, I didn’t know what the intention was going to be, but now it’s starting to become clear to me like, oh, okay, like if I keep adding to that, I think I’m going to be able to make my first big real estate purchase soon because I’ve been just growing that money for a few years, not knowing exactly what it was for. But now that’s kind of, I think, become a little bit more clear to me that I want to start thinking about owning property.

Bob Wheeler (34:12.161)
Love it, love it. Is there any money habit that you are currently trying to break?

Yanely (34:18.194)
Oh, I would say defaulting to buying food instead of like cooking and making my own food. A, because I mean, lifestyle inflation, right, is real. I’ve been making more money than I’ve ever made before and that makes me feel like it’s justified for me to spend a little more on things that are gonna make my life a little more convenient. So ordering food is just gonna save me some time. I don’t have to prep the food. I don’t have to do all that and it’s just gonna be easy. It’s gonna come.

And so I caught myself, last couple months, I started looking through my finances. I’m like, oh, okay, yeah, I definitely did a little bit more Grubhub and Uber Eats than I needed to. And the reality is, it’s so easy for me to get groceries and prep food, because since I moved to Miami, I’m in a building where there’s actually a supermarket on the first floor. So, for me, I just had to be real with myself and like, tough love, like, girl, stop. You have no excuse. There is a grocery store on the first floor.

take the elevator down to one, do your groceries, plan in some time to meal prep and stop making excuses for spending three, four, five times on food just because you make a little more money because you won’t see the money if you keep wasting it in these ways rather than maintaining the lifestyle that I’ve lived. I’ve always meal prepped. You know, there’s a hashtag on Instagram, MissBeHelpfulMealPreps and you can go back and see for years all my meal preps. Even through a few years there, I transitioned to vegan and then back and that was like, you know,

relearning my relationship with food. And so now I’m like, okay, I just gotta check myself and get back to it.

Bob Wheeler (35:50.122)
Yeah, exactly. We have to pause for one second.

Bob Wheeler (35:58.154)
Yeah. We’re replacing a card, a card just filled. So sorry. And then I’ll respond.

Yanely (36:02.186)
No worries.

Yanely (36:05.78)
Hehehe

Bob Wheeler (36:22.818)
We’re good. Great. So, you know, it’s funny you talk about like spending money on Grubhub and all those things. So I totally freak out. I don’t spend on those things because I’m like, that’s an extra $10 or $5 on top of the meal. So when people come to LA, hey, Bob, what are some great restaurants? I cook at home a lot. So unless it’s sushi. But other than that, so I don’t know a lot of restaurants that I don’t have a lot of food delivered because.

Yanely (36:38.434)
Yes.

Yanely (36:46.797)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (36:52.862)
my scarcity mindset from the past. I can’t spend on spend on spend. Like I just see that as money I’m throwing away.

Yanely (36:56.758)
Yeah. No, that’s listen, I, you’re my hashtag goals. I need to get back to that because I mean, and it’s not like I’ve been like exorbitantly like wasting money on food. It’s just, I went through my statements and I was like, oh, this is a couple more than I needed to do order out. Probably because I just had a long day or, you know, specifically doing press for my book for the past six months has been like so much and you know, late night interviews or late night media stuff. And then all of a sudden I’m like, I just don’t want to go to the kitchen.

I just want it to be here in 10 minutes, you know? So it’s that default to convenience that we, you know, for me, it’s just like, I know I can cut it out. I just gotta get back into the groove. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Bob Wheeler (37:29.76)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (37:34.418)
Yeah, convenience makes it easy, makes it easy. So you started off as a teacher before becoming a leading voice in financial education. How did your classroom experience early in your career shape your perspective on the importance of financial literacy?

Yanely (37:42.815)
Yeah.

Yanely (37:49.99)
Well, I mean, it just wasn’t included. It just wasn’t included at all. So I taught elementary school, so third and fourth grade. I never ever once had a lesson about money, what money is, how money works. You know, just basic things like the history of money. How helpful would it be for students to have an understanding of the history of money and how through many different civilizations throughout history, money has been different things. There’s been different forms of money. Some people use leather, some people use cowry shells.

You know, there’s been coins, different types of coins, and eventually paper money and credit cards and debit cards. But having students understand this is so important from an early age. I always tell this story of my niece. She’s just like the biggest personality ever, right? And she’s like asking me, Tia, I really want you to get me a phone. And I was like, I just don’t understand. You’re like nine years old. And when I was your age, I was playing with Barbies and, you know, running outside doing jump rope and stuff like what.

Why do you feel like you need a phone and you’re just going to be sitting in your house doing nothing, just looking at the computer or looking at the screen. And she goes, but Bia, if I get a phone, then I can buy anything that I want. And I was like, wait, what is she talking about? And it clicked like because she watches my sister do tap to pay on her phone with Apple Pay or Google Pay or Samsung Pay. And she now thinks that money is just the phone is connected to money. So every time she taps her phone, she can buy stuff.

Bob Wheeler (39:07.07)
Ah.

Bob Wheeler (39:13.651)
Wow.

Yanely (39:13.678)
And to me, that’s such a danger for a child that early to have developed these conclusions that are completely logical. It totally makes sense. If your whole life, you’ve only seen people pay for stuff by tapping a phone and getting things, that phone is money. It makes sense. But I told my sister right away, I was like, girl, we gotta start having some financial lessons with her. You gotta start talking to her about money, where money is, what are the different ways to access it, forms of money, like.

Bob Wheeler (39:31.612)
Oh wow.

Yanely (39:40.682)
She needs to understand that phone isn’t just tap, tap and tap and buy stuff, that the money’s coming out of your bank account and that makes it hard if you’re not keeping track. So for me, that cemented like, okay, we really need to be teaching basic financial literacy lessons, getting them to think about money, the meaning of money, different ways that money is used and the role of money in a society. And then a personal reflection about what value system you have, what does money mean to you?

And if you had more money, what would you do with it? Cause that’s going to be different for every kid and for every person and for every family. So the earlier we can start getting these values based lessons about money integrated into the classroom curriculum, I think the better, the more of a service we’re doing to the next generation.

Bob Wheeler (40:21.554)
No, absolutely. And you’ve done a lot of work and advocacy for legislation. What’s going on in California?

Yanely (40:28.542)
Ooh, California has a ballot initiative right now. So just like the week after Thanksgiving, we started the signature collection phase. So this is collecting signatures from the general public. We need to have a lot of signatures before this can legitimately be a proposition added to the ballot in 2024, so November, 2024. And the reason this is such a big deal is because recently you’ve seen a lot of states requiring financial literacy for a semester long class in high school.

for high school graduation. I mean, the number of states, it’s just been going up like crazy. I mean, the most recent states, Oregon, Louisiana, Connecticut, Minnesota, Indiana, which I was actually present at the hearings in Indiana. These are, you know, just, there’s just been this wave of states requiring this legislatively. But California is so massive. It is just so big. It’s like multiple states in one giant state.

Bob Wheeler (41:22.614)
for sure.

Yanely (41:22.794)
And so trying to do this through the legislative process, it wasn’t easy and it was actually shot down. It wasn’t able to succeed through the legislative way. And so that’s why this ballot initiative matters so much because if the lawmakers aren’t going to make it happen, then the people need to have their voice heard. And so what you might see, if you live in California, you might be like going to Target and you might see somebody with a clipboard outside saying, support financial literacy. There’s this proposition to add it to the California high school graduation requirements.

And I would encourage you to go over there, learn more about it and sign in support. And then in November of 2024, vote in support because this is how we’re gonna be able to change, create systemic change, right? It’s one thing to talk about us changing our habits and reading books and making a budget, but it’s another thing to create a part of the education system devoted to financial education. And so that’s what’s happening in California with this ballot initiative.

Bob Wheeler (42:16.578)
I love it. Well, I will make sure when they approach me at Target, I won’t run from them. I will sign it and make sure that we get this going. I appreciate that. I appreciate it. Yonelle, we’re at the M&M moment, our sweet spot, money and motivation. I’m wondering if you have a practical tip or a piece of wealth wisdom you could share with our audience.

Yanely (42:19.938)
Yes, baby.

Good, good, good.

Yanely (42:33.682)
Yeah, I mean, I want to tell you to make your money a community based thing. The more you sit at home and try to do the money things all by yourself on a spreadsheet in an app, you know, in some computer software, on a piece of paper, the more you make it this isolated experience that, you know, honestly, sometimes we fester in the negativity of like beating ourselves up about what we’ve made mistakes with. If we have a bad credit score, if we made bad investment choices.

if we’re spending too much, if we’re in debt, you know, these types of things you are not experiencing alone. So the moment that I started talking publicly about money, posting content on YouTube, now you don’t have to go do all that. You don’t have to go post content if you don’t want to. But the idea of connecting your financial practice with others, talking about, you know, hey, what’s working for you? What were ways that you were able to improve in this area?

hey, can you recommend any resources? Now all of a sudden you completely transform the way your financial practice looks from this like isolated thing that you do alone at home with a spreadsheet to this community based exercise that involves people helping each other reaching across and helping each other from miles away and like sending resources and having conversations that can change the way you think about things. For me, that was the most impactful thing that could happen to me financially was including other people, learning from other people.

and making this a social thing and not this lonely, isolated experience.

Bob Wheeler (43:59.41)
Yeah, I think that’s so important. And for me, it’s really about normalizing conversations around money, um, actually being okay to say, Hey, I made a financial misstep and I’m working through it instead of all this shame or internalized shame, um, and letting people know we’re not alone. And so I think that’s so important when you say that. And just in the work that you’re doing, um, is really letting people know financial literacy is important. It is one of the skills that everybody needs.

Yanely (44:04.791)
Yes.

Bob Wheeler (44:29.286)
Um, as much as possible to really succeed in life because we all have to make money decisions, whether it’s buying food, whether it’s feeding our children, whether it’s a place to live, we’re making decisions every day, hundreds of times a day. And so I appreciate that you’re out there trying to make a difference, helping normalize, letting people know they’re not alone. And I, you know, one of the things that struck me, I just thought it was, and I just want to name it again. It’s so important that the, the

Yanely (44:32.677)
Absolutely.

Bob Wheeler (44:58.986)
the multiple perspectives of not negating the ones that maybe aren’t just like ours or that got a little bit more stage time, but to still give them value and then add in all the other voices that need to be heard because we need all of them. And so I really appreciate that perspective because sometimes I think we skip over that in maybe the outrage or the…

Yanely (45:03.918)
Yeah.

Yes.

Bob Wheeler (45:24.202)
the frustration that certain voices haven’t been heard, but like it’s, we still need to welcome all of them and not take anybody out.

Yanely (45:29.934)
Absolutely. I love that. I mean, I think that the reality is there’s space and time and there’s plenty of room for all of us to participate in this conversation. So it pains me when I see anybody like either prioritizing only some over others or trying actively to eliminate certain voices. Like they all need to be in a space and we just need to do a better job of making room and actively working to uplift them. Also, we see the true diversity of this country. I mean, the United States is so, it’s just such a

you know, very colorful fabric with threads of every color from every part of the world here in this one country. And that’s the beautiful thing about us. And if we try to shy away from that or, you know, not honor that, like we’re really doing a disservice. So I’m very proud to obviously be a first generation American. And I’m learning so much about the history of this country. And I constantly compare it to my parents’ home country, Dominican Republic. And I just see so many of the things that we’re doing that allow people to have more access, more opportunities, right? And a better life.

Bob Wheeler (46:02.433)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (46:18.901)
Yeah.

Yanely (46:26.07)
Those are the things that we all agree on and we all need to kind of celebrate. And so, yeah, I mean, in any way that you can uplift those stories, for me, it just happens to be really emphasizing financial literacy education in the school system because I never learned it as a student. I never taught it as a teacher. It’s about time for us to change this for the next generation. We can’t wait any longer for somebody to decide to do it. We have to make sure that our voice is heard and that we get it done.

Bob Wheeler (46:50.95)
Absolutely, the time is now, the time is now. You know where can people find your book? It’s behind you, mind your money. Where can people find your book? And where can people find you on social media?

Yanely (46:53.397)
Yes.

Yes, Mind Your Money. Yeah, so my social media is all Miss B Helpful, M-I-S-S-B-E Helpful, one L at the end. There’s so many fake accounts on social, so you got to be careful with that. But the book Mind Your Money, you can actually buy it on mindyourmoneybook.com. There’s a free guide on there that pairs with the book with lots of great resources and a little bit of information about me. Each chapter of the book, there’s a short video about my story. So if you want to check that out, mindyourmoneybook.com.

Bob Wheeler (47:27.406)
Well, we’ll put all that in the show notes, but love to just hear it. And, you know, like, thanks so much for coming on and just sharing your perspective and your history and your experience. And I hope you don’t feel too guilty about your parents. I love that you’re honoring them by really trying to bring them down and spend time with them in Florida and all that, that’s touching. And, you know. Yeah, so thank you so much.

Yanely (47:48.354)
Thank you. Oh, I so appreciate that.

Lovely to be here. Thanks, Bob.

Bob Wheeler (47:57.482)
Ah, that’s, yeah, thank you so much. Um, I.

Yanely (47:59.522)
Thank you.