Bob Wheeler:
Laura, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to talk about all the subjects that I think we’re gonna cover. Heh.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Heh

Bob Wheeler:
and the ones that I don’t, I know that you’re going to bring them in because there’s

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
heh

Bob Wheeler:
just, there’s

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
heh.

Bob Wheeler:
a lot of stuff to cover and I, you know, one of the things what I appreciate is you’ve been very vulnerable. You are putting your life out there. You are sharing stuff that most of us like to keep under wraps. And there is so much freedom, I think, when we can actually own the places where like own it. And that’s what you’ve done. And so I really, you know, there’s not blame here. There’s not, this is like, this is my life.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, yes.

Bob Wheeler:
This is what happened. As someone who’s overcome addiction, what would you give to advice to people who are struggling right now, who can’t see the path forward?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I don’t know if I would phrase it as I’ve overcome addiction. You know, I’ve been sober since it’ll be 15 years for me this summer. And so I’ve been sober since I set a sobriety date. But I think it’s like the tiger sleeping in the back of the cage still.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
and I don’t want to wake it up.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
So I mean, it’s not gone. And I don’t struggle with it anymore. Or I just don’t struggle with it now. I don’t know if that’s going to be forever. But I think you know, the thing that you talk about that I’ve heard you talk about, which I really admire is is really just bringing shame out into the open and talking about the things, sharing our experiences that we want to keep secret rather than private. you know, the thing that, you know, I would die if anybody found out versus the thing that this is just mine, and it’s just for me and my family.

And, you know, those things, those secrets, really kept me steeped in my addiction. And it was through the telling of my story, in an honest, vulnerable way that freed me of the shackles of it. And so my advice would be to get your courage up to find someone safe with whom in whom you can confide and let them know what’s going on with you. It doesn’t have to be everything.

You can start small, you know, but to say something that you haven’t said to anybody else that you think is the worst thing in the world. My… my thoughts or my addict mind told me that I would be judged and shunned if I revealed these things and exactly the opposite was true.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I think that’s so important for people to hear. It seems counterintuitive.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
And I can speak for myself. A lot of the things that I was ashamed to admit, I actually thought it would kill me. Like, not even that I would be judged. I literally, a good portion of my life was this may be the thing that kills me. And that was daily. And

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
so I love the title of your book. stash, but the part that I love is my life in hiding. And I think so many of us have spent our life in hiding. So much fear, so much worry about the judgment or that it’s going to kill us and that the more we can actually own it, expose a little bit to the sun that we’re actually going to be okay. And it took me a long time to get there.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, I thank you for that. And my life in hiding, that’s so important for me, because this is an addiction memoir, but it’s really what I think it’s about is my journey, my departure from my authentic self.

you know, which started with those things maybe I was embarrassed by, but then allowed them to steep into shame. So I never shared. And then my journey back toward my authentic self, which is, you know, the warts and all version of Laura, the, the one who’s made, um, really fantastic mistakes along the way and is now able to own them and learn from them.

Because that’s the thing. And I was thinking about money this morning and I, I don’t always think about money. And my boyfriend does. He’s always checking the market and he’s always telling me trends. And I don’t always think about money, which I understand is a privilege.

I absolutely understand that’s a privilege. But I was thinking about money this morning and thinking about how embarrassed I was that I didn’t have a good relationship with it when I was a young adult and how I hid that from everyone. along with everything else I had, you know, my lack of a high school diploma, my, my, the fact that I never went to college, I hid all these things away from people.

And, and so those, you know, like I said before, those embarrassing things turned into all out full blown shame, which had to be hidden. And I love that you put it that way, because I really did feel like I would die too. It was, it wasn’t just a fear of judgment that

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
came first.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
But

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
then if I were judged, I was going to die.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
and it’s scary. So I’m just saying to the listeners out there, it’s scary. It’s not easy. This is not for the light of heart, it’s,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
or the faint of heart, it’s work. And the payoff is awesome when we get through it. Just doesn’t feel like it at the time sometimes.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Now you grew up mostly raised by your mom, grew up poor. Can you share a little bit about what that was like growing up? Did you feel the lack of, did you notice that you didn’t have what other kids had? Um, like what was that growing up and did you make some assumptions or tag on some beliefs or how did that, what was that like?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
So yeah, my parents got divorced when I was four. Dad went to med school and then moved to Florida. My mom and I moved to Cambridge, Mass. And so she was a single mom. For a while, she later remarried and I had a stepfather, but he was not the earner in our family.

My mom was. And I mean, we were not just welfare poor, which we were. She would shoplift groceries occasionally, poor. And then I had this really incredible juxtaposition in my life. We always lived in really nice neighborhoods, even if it was a two bedroom and I had the bedroom. And they slept in the living room. Like we always lived in these beautiful tree lined, you know, not a check cashing place

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
in sight, not a liquor store in sight. So and I went to independent schools. I went to the Cambridge Montessori School. on scholarship, that’s what it was called then. They didn’t say financial aid. I was the only black kid in my school for a while, the only black kid in my class almost the whole time.

And so I didn’t, I would think looking back that I would go there and think, oh. They live in these beautiful homes, my classmates, and some of them have, you know, housekeepers and like things that were just unheard of to me. But I really felt like I belonged in that world. Like,

Bob Wheeler:
Ah!

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I felt like, I don’t know, I just, I didn’t see it as a disparity so much as like, oh, I’m, this is where I’m supposed to be. I’m supposed to be at my friend’s houses and their housekeeper is going to bring us up graham crackers and milk while we’re watching TV upstairs because this is the life I’m supposed to lead.

And it didn’t make me sad to go back to my other life. My mother’s an artist and everything was always rich and colorful and, you know, I definitely, my stepfather was my adversary. So there was that. I was, and because of that, I think I was even more social. So I spent more time in these other worlds, where I was a very welcome guest, than I did in my own world where things where there was a lot of scarcity and there was scarcity, but I was always my mother’s priority.

So like the treats that I wanted, I always had whatever I wanted for Christmas or my birthday, the one gift, you know, it wasn’t lots of gifts, but the one gift I wanted I would get. And so it and then I went, you know, I was in this very, you know, posh private school. So I didn’t feel the lack. When I was when I was a kid, I felt it more when I was a teenager and a young adult.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
And did you notice, like, noticing that you were the only black woman, the only person of color? Did you, were there times when you saw that that was held against you? Or was it mostly a fairy tale childhood and like, hey, I’m in my element. But was there any awareness or the way that your mom might’ve been treated?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I don’t remember any kind of aggression or bigotry ever directed toward me or even any microaggressions and I’m sure there were. I was fetishized though.

Bob Wheeler:
Mm,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I was

Bob Wheeler:
right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Elisa’s black friend who was coming over and other people were invited when I was at the dinner table to kind of witness this new cultural phenomenon that was happening in their house.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
So I was regarded, it felt good, like the attention I got. I didn’t feel it like that when I was a kid. You know, my mom’s really light skinned, long straight hair. So what she received on the street was different than if she had been dark skinned and had kinkier hair or looked more traditionally black.

But I was raised by black people in a black community. that were they were activists, they were very politically aware. So this was the talk happening in my house about how we were seen out there, you know, 20 minutes away when little girls who look like me were stepping off buses in Boston and getting yelled, you know, getting the N word yelled at them and getting

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
hit with stone. So these were discussions happening, but it felt a world away to me. I didn’t have that experience.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
yeah, that’s, you know, it would seem for me anyway, if I’m with my peers who have experienced that and I haven’t, right? I look like them sort of, but I don’t and their experience is completely different. So

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
it would feel to me at least a little bit, I’d feel like a little bit like an alien.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, well, I didn’t have those peers. Like, the Black folks in Boston, I didn’t know any of them.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I was just in this little teeny bubble. But like I said, when I became a teenager and

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
a young adult, then things shifted for me. And I was like, oh, wow, this is not OK.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
This

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
is not what I lived in before. And I’m grateful for it. I’m grateful because my reality was very stark. And I’m. Harsh. So that I had this escape into this other world where things were prettier and softer and smelled good. And the food, oh my goodness, we weren’t allowed any white food in my house. My parents were also hippies. So everything was brown, like brown rice, no mashed potatoes.

Bob Wheeler:
Ugh.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
The pasta was whole wheat. And… Oh, I hated it. So,

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I would not do well.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
my friend’s homes were a haven for that reason as well because I got to eat American cheese for the first time.

Bob Wheeler:
Uh.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
They had white bread, Wonder Bread. You could squish it

Bob Wheeler:
It

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
and

Bob Wheeler:
was

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
it would

Bob Wheeler:
the best.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
pop back out.

Bob Wheeler:
Not healthy, but it was the best.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Oh, the best, the best. And I just, I literally ate it up. Like whenever I was there, I ate everything I could get my hands on.

Bob Wheeler:
That’s so cool. Well, then your life turned a big turn. You when you got to L.A., now you’re in the Hollywood spotlight. You people eyes are on you. Right. And what were what in your mind? What were the expectations versus the reality of it? Because those are two different things, probably.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Probably, yeah. Because I don’t have a formal education, my whole life has been spent either learning from the books I love, very solo, which is why I didn’t know how to pronounce a lot of words.

Bob Wheeler:
I’m out.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I became an adult. I’m like, oh, that’s hyperbole. Oh. No idea, it looks like hyperbole. And there are several other words like that that I can’t think of right now.

Bob Wheeler:
Facade.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
But I…

Bob Wheeler:
Facade.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
Facade? What?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes. But I learned from books and from watching people, you know, so I’m thrown into a new situation. I’m probably going to hang back and check out how everybody else conducts themselves in this space in order for me to know how I need to conduct myself in that space.

And I know that is, you know, it’s an asset. of mine that I can do that and I need to be a quick study when I do that because it needs for me it needs to look kind of seamless. So you know I got into this world like you said this kind of high profile Hollywood world I’m thrown into the middle of it I’m at one point dating and then engaged to and then married to someone who runs in those circles and is really well respected in that world.

and I look around at his peers and I see that they seem to love, you know, planning bridal showers and baby showers and their moms and they love being a mom and they do jewelry shows and have, you know, there’s a role expectation for the wives which was much different than the role expectations for the husbands in this world and the husbands were the earners. you know, which is not the model I grew up with.

Even though my dad’s a doctor, I didn’t grow up in the same house with him. So what I saw was my mother doing, you know, sometimes skilled labor to bring in money for, or, you know, odd jobs to bring in money for our house. And so then here’s this, and so I’ve always worked. I worked ever since I was 15 years old because I dropped out of school, I had to get a job.

And then I just always worked. sometimes, you know, two or three jobs. And there was this expectation that I’m not supposed to work. This is what I glean from my surroundings and that I’m supposed to want to have kids right away. And I’m supposed to want to throw these dinner parties and have, you know, these outfits and these dresses that I’m supposed to want to wear and enjoy wearing and, you know, be a hostess. be a good mama, be someone who plays tennis on Tuesdays with the girls and goes, there’s a girls night that’s kind of like required attendance.

And none of those things were me authentically. I don’t even know if being a mom honestly was me authentically. I’m… really incredibly grateful for my children and I’m I’m grateful for my maternal instinct because I know again this is another privilege that I have not everybody has it not everybody has their kids and falls in love with them you know

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
sometimes it takes work sometimes it they never get there sometimes there’s compassion and caring but it’s not that full tilt in love gaga which is what I had and have with my my two sons but other than that That piece of it being a mom, I don’t know that I was cut out for any of the rest of it, but I played along like I was.

Bob Wheeler:
And if you trace that back, do you remember like your mom saying, present well? Or was it, oh, my friends have, you know, housemaids present well. Do you know, like, can you trace back to that place where now I’m in the Hollywood lights and I’ve got to present well? I mean, we all have versions and flavors of how am I going to present so that nobody finds out my secrets.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
But I’m just curious for you when you Might have started to become aware even if you couldn’t really change it just that awareness of I need to show up like this

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, I think, honestly, I think it started when my stepfather came into my life and the way that I was authentically seemed to rub him the wrong way. And he was he was the son of an Episcopalian minister, priest, whatever

Bob Wheeler:
Minister,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
they are,

Bob Wheeler:
minister,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
clergy.

Bob Wheeler:
clergy.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, yes. He was the son of an Episcopalian clergyman. And they lived this very like we. We, I say because they got married, but we had homes in Cape Cod. There were three sisters that owned homes. They live this very, he didn’t, but they lived this very, what’s the word I’m looking for? It was not just upper class, but there was a culture that went with that. Being black and upper class, there seemed to be another set of rules

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
because we had to be better than. And so even though I wasn’t like… technically in that family. I spent a lot of time in that family. And the way that I was, which I’m sure that he just saw me as this little wild child when I came into his life, rubbed him the wrong way. And so I learned etiquette according to him,

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
from him. And when I stepped out of that lane, my house got violent. I was in a terrible situation. So there was an immediate consequence. The violence, physically anyway, was never directed toward me, but it was directed toward my mother. And the yelling and the threats were always directed toward me.

So it wasn’t just like I could gauge this or this. It was like, oh, no, you’re going to suffer a direct consequence if you don’t present well. So I did take that with me out into the world, not thinking I would receive the same consequence consciously. I didn’t think that my friends’ families would be violent toward me, but I think it was already grooved in me that that’s my third rail. I don’t touch that line. I don’t step out of it.

Bob Wheeler:
Wow, wow. And I think, you know, when we don’t, when our home where we’re supposed to go home and be safe is no longer safe, where do you go?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Like there’s nowhere to go. When home base is not safe, it gets pretty dangerous.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, yeah, which is why I think looking back, I spent so much time outside of my home. And, you know, again, when I was living that, it didn’t feel like it was coming at a cost to me. It felt like I was a really social kid. I’ve actually interviewed people. from my life when I was looking at writing this book from different phases of my life. And they all had the same things to say.

You were sweet, you were funny, you were always in a good mood, you always had a quick laugh, you were fun to be around. And I loved having you over, my mom loved having you over. Like they all, I was genuinely welcomed into all these spaces. And the thought was that I was happy, that I was a happy kid, which I don’t think I was pretending. I think that is my default. I just think I had to edit that out, edit parts of myself out in order to cope at home.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. And with that piece about being happy and I, I, I agree. Some of that stuff, like, you know, I think for me, I’ve, I try to never lose my sense of humor and I’ve always had that even in the midst of the most horrible things I can find a laugh and, and,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
and so I can still find joy in waking up now there have been days that I didn’t want to wake up. Um, and, and that’s different. And I’m wondering for you, um, when that moment started to come in where, you know, maybe this drug sort of helps me feel a little bit better, right?

And I know you talk about this and I think it’s so important to say, you know, drug addiction is not a choice. It is not a choice. In the beginning, it might feel like a choice as it draws you in and seduces you. Do you remember, like, oh, this will just help a little bit. Do you remember the journey into… the place that then got really dark.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Oh, yes, I do.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I remember it well. Yeah, and thank you for setting that up with addiction is not a choice. That is really what I believe. And, but one of the reasons I wrote Stash My Life in Hiding was because I wanted to show people the kind of slow burn that got me into this really desperate place. And the medical definition of addiction is anything in which you continue to indulge despite negative consequences. .

I had so many negative consequences prior to my getting help. Had I stopped earlier thinking like, oh, okay, this is happening again. Maybe this is something I should really look at. Maybe my journey would have been different. And so I write it as a tell-all, but also as a cautionary tale for people. My experience was, and I believe this now, I don’t think I knew this at the time, but after my second son was born, the year after my first son was born, I believe that I had postpartum anxiety.

I didn’t know that term then. I don’t know if it really was a term. When I asked my OBGYN about postpartum depression, He said, I didn’t have it. He didn’t do any further diagnosis. He just, and again, I’m presenting well, right?

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I gave him no other indication during that visit other than the question of, do you think I might have postpartum depression? And perhaps I wasn’t presenting, maybe I didn’t have depression. So maybe that’s why he said no.

That’s another thing I would do is have people press their… their medical advisors or their physicians, if they have an intuition or an instinct that something’s wrong, keep talking, get a second opinion, bring in somebody with you who can be a witness for your experience.

But I did not, but I was, so I felt like, this is the postpartum anxiety, I felt like I couldn’t sleep because even when my kids were asleep, I knew they were gonna wake up soon, so my brain would stay alert. Like I just could never rest, even when it was okay for me to rest. I couldn’t rest. And it felt like there was an alarm bell ringing in my head 24-7, and it

Bob Wheeler:
Mm-hmm.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
was loud, and it was disruptive, and I couldn’t concentrate, and I was short-tempered, and I was not the kind of mom that I wanted to be to my kids. And so my regular doctor prescribed Ambien for me to help reset my system, to get me sleeping again.

And I swear that alarm bell right up until the moment I took that first pill and then there was silence for the first time in such a long time. And it was blissful and it was gorgeous and silky and warm. And all I wanted to do was stay there.

Bob Wheeler:
All right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
But when I woke up the next morning, I felt refreshed and restored. I felt like I could be the kind of mom that I wanted to be. And I was. So my thinking was, I cannot be a mom without these pills.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
These pills are the thing that allows me to be the kind of mom my kids deserve. So if I have to take these pills for the rest of my life so that I could show up for my family, that’s what I’m going to do. That was the rational thinking that was happening. And I think what happened was that tiger that I talked about in the beginning, sleeping in the back of the cage, raised its head then and said, hmm. this could be something

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
and we might like to do this more. And so, you know, it was very gradual. It was probably, I don’t know, maybe two bottles of 30 that first year. And then it was one every night the second year and then one and a half to get to sleep. And then by year four, it was like two to get to sleep and a half in the middle of the night.

And then by year six, I was taking 10 a night. I mean, honestly, everything I could get my hands on, I was taking, but I had to ration them out because I didn’t have a steady source for them. I was getting them from my existing doctors who couldn’t know that I was addicted to it.

Bob Wheeler:
Right. Yeah,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
and it feels like it can get tricky there because if you’re doing heroin, okay, you’re an addict.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
You’re doing the dirty drugs. You’re an addict. But a doctor prescribed it

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
and I’ve got kids and I’ve got a good lifestyle. You know, I laugh because my mom was an alcoholic, but

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm.

Bob Wheeler:
she drank wine. And so

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
wine is actually, if you only drink three or four glasses, you know, per hour,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
it’s, you know, you’re going through a gallon or two of wine a day and hiding the trash, hiding it in the neighbor’s trash. But it’s wine.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
And so a doctor prescribed this for you. So it can’t be addiction.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right, right. It’s a dependency. That’s what I

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah!

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
thought. I’ve developed a physical dependency on this, so I need to figure out how to better manage it so that I’m not physically dependent on it. But I needed to figure that out by myself. I was unwilling to let any medical professional in, because I know that somewhere in my mind, I knew I was addicted, that this wasn’t a physical dependency.

It was just a justification that I allowed myself. was, I’m just dependent. You know, I minimized and rationalized and justified everything as quickly as I could. My mind did it automatically so that I wouldn’t have to wrestle with, do I need to look at putting these down? Because I didn’t want to do that.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, well, those are the good times. Like

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
the voices are quiet.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
I’m wondering, and it feels like, I’m gonna ask the question, but then I’m gonna jump to another piece because I feel like they’re related. So I wanna ask, when did you start to realize something’s gotta change? Like, right, something’s gotta change. And then I wanna bring in the piece because I love this phrase. And of course I incorrectly credited it, but wherever you go, there you are.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm, yes,

Bob Wheeler:
Right?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
And to me that is such, it’s so important because we carry it with us. We, like, you don’t get to run from it.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
No.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s there. Here it is. And so when I saw that phrase, I was like, yes, yes, yes.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Hehehe

Bob Wheeler:
But I feel like they might be tied together. And I’m curious.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, I mean, in Recovery, they talk about people pulling geographics, trying to get away from the circumstances that cause them to drink and use. And then they find themselves in the same place again, doing the same thing with new people in a new place. And they’re just like, it’s wherever I went, wherever I go, there I am. I had a medical emergency right at the beginning of the book.

And I think anybody that reads the book will read that and think, how could that have not made you look at what you were doing to yourself? How did that not make you stop? And it didn’t. What made me look at I can’t go on anymore with this and I have to take some action was pretty unspectacular. It was the 4th of July. I… We had a house in Malibu at the time.

I live in Los Angeles and we had, my now ex-husband was out of town on a shoot for a while. And so I took my kids out there to watch the fireworks. That’s what they wanted to do. They wanted to watch the fireworks in Malibu and I couldn’t take them. By the time we got there, I hadn’t brought my stash from Studio City because I… thought I had enough in my Malibu stash, and it ended up that I did not have enough for me.

And by the time I got there, because I was trying to be good, right? I was trying not to take any during the day, so I’m driving my kids around, right? So I’m not gonna take anything before I drive them out to Malibu. And then I was thinking I’ll get through fireworks and then I’ll knock myself out while they’re asleep, which is what I would normally do.

And then we’ll spend the day together and then I’ll knock myself out again the next night and then we’ll go back to the studio city. And when we got there, I was in full blown withdrawal. Like I could barely form a sentence. I couldn’t even look my kids in the eyes.

And I was shaking, everything hurt, everything ached. My eyes ached, my head ached. I was sweating. Like my body was detoxing and it was rapid. So I sent them with a neighbor to see the fireworks, told them I had a headache, which was the truth, but not the total sum of the truth.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
And then I found that my stash only had three pills, which at that point was not going to be enough to get me through the night. And I was in just this, I fell into this despair and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror. As I literally fell to the floor and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror.

The lights are really dim, I’ll never forget this. It was like kind of across the bathroom. It was a really large bathroom and it was one of those standing mirrors that kind of tilts on its frame. And I saw myself hit the ground and I saw like the outline of myself and I could see the tears on my face. Like the light was picking up the glistening of the tears.

And I was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You’ve got to go get help. You know, this is you’re gonna you’re getting a divorce. I was getting a divorce. I forgot to mention that we were in the middle of a divorce

Bob Wheeler:
Hahaha

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
and I was like, you’re gonna lose your kids. You’re not going to be able to be in their lives. Or they’re going to have to bury you, because you’re going to keep taking these lethal doses of pills and washing them down with booze, and you’re not going to be around. And obviously, neither of those choices were appealing.

At that point, my children were my last priority. They were the last things that I could prioritize. I couldn’t prioritize any other relationships, but I could prioritize them. And I knew that it was then that I wouldn’t be able to for much longer. So I was at the crossroads. I couldn’t be sober and I couldn’t get loaded. So I decided to go get help. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s not always an easy step and it’s not like a forward step where you just run to the other side and it’s all done. There’s

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, yes.

Bob Wheeler:
step forward, step back, step forward twice. Like it’s it’s it’s it’s not an easy journey.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
No, no, it’s not. And, and I had a I had a really particularly difficult time with it. It was I’ve heard people like like my boyfriend who I met the hour I checked into treatment. But when he made the decision to go, he was relieved immediately.

While he was there, he felt safe for the first time in a long time. I had the opposite experience. I was the opposite of relieved. I was more anxious and more angry, and more sad. And I didn’t have any relief from those feelings while I was there. But I stayed.

Bob Wheeler:
You stayed.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
You stayed. Do you still feel imposter syndrome from time to time or do you feel like, you know what, I’m good in my body?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I don’t know if it’s exactly imposter syndrome, but being an author. And so I write memoir or I wrote a memoir. I don’t know if that’s all I’m ever gonna write, but memoirists usually have like MFAs. There’s a literary quality to memoir that is largely absent in mind. Mine is very sensorial, active first person. I just, I wrote it like quickly.

I wrote it in six months, five days a week. 11 to seven, but it just poured out of me and it’s exactly how I remember it. I did stop to double check stuff on the way, but there wasn’t much craft involved. I didn’t worry about structure at all. I just wrote about those 10 months. So when I’m on panels with other memoirists who take a great deal of time and intentionality with things like structure and that…

There’s just a lexicon that I’m not familiar with that they all seem to have studied when it comes to this. My book was not well-reviewed by literary magazines. They didn’t like it because of those things, because it feels more like a commercial read, more like a novel is what I’ve been told. And, but the New York Times gave it a really good review. So if you’re gonna read a review,

Bob Wheeler:
That’s all we care about. Yeah, read the ads.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
read that

Bob Wheeler:
You

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
one.

Bob Wheeler:
just need one. Ha ha

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, so.

Bob Wheeler:
ha.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
When I’m sitting there on these panels, which is all I’ve been doing since the book launched on March 7th, I do feel a twinge of I don’t belong here. But that’s not to say that I don’t think that my book has a place in the world and so do I. But I don’t know if I belong on a panel with these women who write in this particular way about these particular things. .

Mine is so out of the box when I’m compared to these people who I’ve been. sitting with. So I don’t know if it’s quite imposter syndrome, but it I definitely feel like like othered or the only one in the room, but not necessarily in a bad way. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Do you, um, you’ve got a boyfriend now, um,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
doing a lot of great stuff. Do you feel like you can tell him anything and do you like works and all? Like there’s, you get to be your authentic self.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, so I mentioned that I met him in treatment, which is not to say that we were a rehab romance, we were friends. And honestly, he’s so much different than any guy I would ever pick out. I did nothing to impress him. Like I wasn’t even aware that this might be somebody that I want to impress, so I’ve never been anything but my authentic self with him. I was not… it all checking for any kind of response from him. I was just me. I was sobbing when he met me for days. So yes, no, I have not hidden things from him. We don’t discuss our particular financials with each other.

But that’s not because I’m hiding it. It’s because we’ve chosen to keep it separate and private. In broad strokes, we know, but we don’t discuss the particulars. But that’s not hiding. I tell him everything. He’s my first place. And we’re in recovery together. We go to recovery meetings together. We have a recovery meeting in our house for the last 14 years every Saturday, getting ready to have one tomorrow.

So this is the relief in my life, is that I don’t have to hide. And in fact, my recovery is predicated on the fact that I don’t. So it’s a very slippery slope for me. The moment I become dishonest about anything, and that includes lying by omission, which doesn’t mean that I need to tell everybody everything. I can tell you, actually that’s private. So I’d rather not discuss it instead of lying to you and saying that it’s something else. But that was challenging for me to learn how to do.

Bob Wheeler:
Mm-hmm.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Boundary setting

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
is, yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Healthy boundaries. What?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right?

Bob Wheeler:
Why?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Huh?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Absolutely. Yeah. Boundary setting. Some of us are just not taught that.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
No, and for me, honestly, the feedback I get from people who know me well is how bounded I am around money. Can I tell you a couple of my

Bob Wheeler:
Yes,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
money boundaries?

Bob Wheeler:
yes.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Okay, so some of the best advice, oh, but we’re going to talk about that, so I won’t tell you about the advice, but

Bob Wheeler:
Is it?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I will give anybody that asks me in my life once 20 bucks. You need it for gas. You need you know, get gross, whatever it is, you need 20 bucks or you need money, I’m gonna give you 20. And I’m never gonna think about it again. I do not lend money. I don’t lend money to anybody. It’s not good for me. What I found is I take people’s inventories once I do

Bob Wheeler:
Yes.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
and I am waiting for that return and it gets in the way of my relationships.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Not lending the money could also get in the way of my relationships, but I’m willing to take that risk. And this is not to say that I’ve never lent anybody money. There have been a couple of exceptions to this rule, but I’m sure I’m getting it back. You know, I know I’m getting it back and I think my relationship with this person can take it. My brother, if you’re listening, he notes you. I’m sorry.

Bob Wheeler:
be specific.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
To be specific. But people know, people who know me know, they’re like, don’t ask Laura for money. She is not going to give you any. I give you that 20 bucks and that’s it. So that’s my, that’s one of my boundaries around money.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that’s great. And I think it’s good to be clear about that because we do take inventory. Hmm, I just saw their social media, really?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
That looks new.

Bob Wheeler:
Ha ha ha. Ah, their sad story is not aligning with their social media

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right?

Bob Wheeler:
posts. Ha ha

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right?

Bob Wheeler:
ha. Call them out. Ha ha ha.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes. Actually, I just want to add one more thing. Two of my friends have had medical issues come up, and I’ve given them money for it. I do not expect it back. And that’s not lending, though. But I have gifted them that money. So.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, and when you can do it from that place of I’m making this choice, so I’m

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
not going to be attached to future outcomes,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
there’s no string attached, right? It’s just, here it is.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, here it is.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s a need. I’m helping fulfill that need. I don’t need anything back.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right.

Bob Wheeler:
Again, a mindset with that. Do you, just since you brought up finances, do you look at

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
your money a lot? Do you… Talk to your money, do you look at your bank accounts, do you budget?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
So now I can tell you my advice that I got.

Bob Wheeler:
Okay

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
When I had a public relations company when I was in my late 20s into my early 30s, and this guy Ralph Rosner, I just read his obituary because I was writing about him and I wanted to see if he was still alive. And he was like, just like central casting for an accountant in Hollywood. He was like the star of David, the blue velour tracksuit, the comb over. He was great. And so I had this money, this money, I had this company that was starting to make money. We were on retainer with a lot of studios and labels. And I wanted to spend it.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
And he was like, this is what you do. You put that money, and he put it in something that was saving me money. I don’t remember what exactly it was. I want to say it’s an IRA, but it could have been something else.

And we’re going to pay you a small salary. We’re going to pay your business expenses. And then we’re going to pay you a small salary. And that’s what you’re going to live on. And I was like, but that’s what I live on now. Like, I want a bigger

Bob Wheeler:
I want

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
place.

Bob Wheeler:
more!

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I want a nicer car. And he’s like, no, this is the way we’re going to do it. You’ll see. This will be better for you in the end. And he was so right. And so what I do now is the money that I have to spend. I divide my money into 12 months. Not all of it, but like here are my bills for the next 12 months. So this is what I need to cover every month. This is what I spend. This is what I need for spending money.

And then that’s what I get. My spending money is what I get out from the bank and I get it in cash. And I try not to put it on my credit cards. I try really hard. It’s harder now because so many places are cashless. And so I may have to change my system a little bit, but it may just be a separate account where I put that money in and then use a debit card that’s attached to that money. It’s a good idea.

But whatever that spending money is, that’s it. If I go through it, I don’t get more until the next month. So because I come from that scarcity mindset, I don’t go through it. I’ll milk it to the

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
end because I don’t want to be without any money. And that has served me really well.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I think that’s so awesome. And yes, I have my SAG-AFTRA credit union, fund money account, and I sometimes won’t spend on it for a long time so it can build up and

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
then I

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
can get a massage

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I love

Bob Wheeler:
and

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
buildup.

Bob Wheeler:
a vacation.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes,

Bob Wheeler:
It’s the best, it’s the

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
it

Bob Wheeler:
best,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
is.

Bob Wheeler:
but it’s.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
But I don’t check my bank accounts a lot. Like I said, Scott’s the one he watches the money. You know, it’s, we’re not watching each other’s money, but we’re watching money overall and like

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
seeing how the market did and that kind of thing. And and I have I have a couple people on my money team, I guess, who I rely on to check in with if anything’s going awry. But usually things are okay, as long as I don’t go out of those boundaries.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Well, it’s, you know, it’s for me, it’s always so important to be conscious and intentional with how I spend my money, how I save my money, what I’m doing with my money, even if it’s not always doing what I like. But I’m aware of it. I’m tracking it. I’m tracking

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, yes,

Bob Wheeler:
it.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
And there was a for the longest time, I think my I’m the only one in the room who wasn’t actually following, you know, I’m a CPA. I’ve got the skills. I know the information, but not following even my own advice. Um, right. Cause I was the exception to the rule. I’m the only one that these rules don’t count.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Apply to. Yes. Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
That’s right. They don’t apply to me. They won’t work. I’m, I was defective or I was, there was just, there was good excuses.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
for a long time and the reason that I do this podcast and the reason I have these conversations is I did a lot of stuff wrong. I did a lot of stuff secretly. I had to, and I presented really well,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
but it was like, there was such a gap between truth and story and

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
letting that go. But I think there’s a lot of people out there and I’m saying this to all the listeners out there who, Yeah, I’m the exception to the rule. That’s not gonna happen for me. I can’t get past this. You can, we can.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
Gotta have a little bit of determination and a lot of support.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, and willingness to look at reality.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Look at the warts.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
Look at the warts.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
exactly.

Bob Wheeler:
Look at the warts. Well, we are at the Fast Five now. And so we’re going to shift the energy a little bit. I, yeah, I’m just, I could talk for another 10 hours on this. This is just, I love it. So we’re at the Fast Five. The Fast Five is brought to you by The Money Nerve. If you’d like to test your money nerve, go to testyournerve.com for a free quiz on your relationship with money. So we’re just going to have a little bit of fun. Um, and some of us not so fun, but,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Hehehehe

Bob Wheeler:
uh, cause the first, I just went, Oh, that’s not a fun question.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Hehehehe

Bob Wheeler:
Um, uh, did addiction ever have an impact on your finances?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
It’s hard to say. It’s hard to say. My finances were fairly insulated from the way I lived. So maybe if I wasn’t an addict, I could have started earning better earlier. Like, I don’t know. But it’s hard to say. But it wasn’t the typical impact where bank accounts were drained to feed the addiction.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, great. What is your definition of forgiveness?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Oh, I love the definition that forgiveness is letting go of the hope that the past could have been any different. And really, for me, the visual is I just set it down. It’s like, if I am if I’m holding something against someone, I’m carrying that burden. And the visual is I’m just going to set it down.

I’m not going to carry this anymore. It’s heavy. It’s spiky. It’s hot. Like it’s, it’s difficult. And setting it down. It’s I found that it’s an incredible relief actually to forgive someone when it’s appropriate.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, yeah, I like that. It sort of makes me think about when you’re holding something. I guess it’s slightly different, but you can either pass it on or pass it back. Right?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah, yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
Like don’t hold it. Like, like

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yes.

Bob Wheeler:
set it down. Like that’s yours.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
And if I don’t resolve it, then I’m going to pass it on to the next person. And they’re going to be like, what are you, what’s

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Exactly.

Bob Wheeler:
this mess you’re throwing at me? Um,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Right.

Bob Wheeler:
um, so yeah, self responsibility. When we can, when we

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
can. What is one goal that you are currently working on, personally or professionally, that you, like, it’s gonna happen?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
So my publisher and my agent, after Stash came out, both took me to lunch when I was in New York doing a book event and said they wanted me to write a novel next. And that had never occurred to me. I never thought about writing a novel. I’m not a fiction person. So I’m doing it.

Bob Wheeler:
Awesome. Awesome.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Cut to, I’m writing a novel and I actually am really enjoying the process.

Bob Wheeler:
That is so cool. Awesome.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Well, I’ll look forward to seeing that book coming out. What is one thing that you would like our audience to take away from this episode? Like, from your journey? What is something that, hey folks, in case you missed it, let me be explicit.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I think that in kind of a melding of both of our stories, shame is not only harmful, but it robs you of so many wonderful experiences. It robs you of so many opportunities. The shirt I’m wearing now says, how free do you wanna be? I love this because it’s a reminder of I want to be as free as possible, which means letting go of shame. And you know, most people, myself included, bury shame.

They bury it way in the back and they don’t look at it. And if somebody takes a peek at it or if it comes out, it’s the end. It’s over. Like, I’m a cut and run girl. You see what I’m ashamed of? I’m out of your life or you’re out of mine. One of the two.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, oh yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
And and so those like that’s an example of an experience relationships that I robbed myself of because I because shame robbed me of those experiences and I let it. So I would say if you’ve heard this episode and even if you don’t you know have addiction or you don’t have anybody in your lives that are struggling with addiction if you have shame just think about what it’s taking away from you.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is sort of a follow-up question, sort of that similar, but can you just name one major reason why it’s extremely important to stay true to ourselves and stay our authentic selves? I know shame is folded in there, but is there anything else that you could tie to that?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Absolutely. It’s, you know, I have this dear friend that says faith isn’t jumping from A to B. Faith is just jumping from A.

Bob Wheeler:
Mmm.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Not knowing where you’re going to land.

Bob Wheeler:
I like that.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
But for me, when I jumped from A, when I got divorced, when I got sober, the thing I didn’t know I was doing was choosing the possibility of happiness. And you know, I know how to endure. Like I endured so much for all of my life and I was prepared to endure for the rest of it.

But on the other side of this, for me, there was actual joy and not just fleeting moments of it, but daily joy. I could have missed that, you know? This is like to live authentically for me means freedom and joy and hallelujah. Who knew? Right at age 58. This would be the most joyous time of my life

Bob Wheeler:
That’s so awesome. That’s so awesome. I love that. Laura, we are at the M&M sweet spot, money and motivation piece. Can you give me a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom, something that’s worked for you in your journey?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, well if you’re if you want to become a writer for a living don’t.

Bob Wheeler:
Write this down, writers.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Do something else in addition to. I mean, I really do. And again, I’m speaking from this place of privilege, but I really think, like my dad’s an HIV doctor. He’s 83 years old. He just like bursts into work every day. He’s so excited to be, to work with his patients. It’s not about the money, it’s about his passion. I sit at my computer every day and write because I love to do it.

But I also think… There’s this idea that you should just do that kind of blindly. And I’m big on taking responsibility for your life. You know, if people are raising children, if they have families and mortgages and car payments, you can’t just do what you’re passionate about and hope to make money at it.

You have to be practical. Keep the passionate thing, you know, keep that passion. And maybe one day that’s all you’ll need to do. But if you have responsibilities, don’t… And don’t think it’s a failure either. if you have to do a job, like the odd jobs that my mom did, or the jobs that I did, which was really hard running my own company as a woman. Like this was hard work.

And the payoff was that I got to pay my bills and support my family, or support myself, then my mom got to support us. And then now my mom is in her 80s, and she’s an artist, and she’s painting, and she’s getting to pursue her passion full-time.

And not everybody has to wait. but just to not think it’s a failure if you’re not pursuing your passion. You can be successful being responsible and keeping that passion alive somehow, some other way.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I think that’s great advice and I do try to tell people sometimes a job is just a means to an end.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
And even if it is just a means to an end, show up with a little bit of joy and

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes,

Bob Wheeler:
do good

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
pride

Bob Wheeler:
work.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
of ownership.

Bob Wheeler:
Right? Just because

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
it’s going to bleed through everything you do anyway. So why not take the positive spin even if you know it’s temporary?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Even if it’s not your favorite thing. It’s letting you pay your rent. It’s feeding you. so that you can get to your passion projects so that you

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes,

Bob Wheeler:
can get to

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yes.

Bob Wheeler:
the next step. So I

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I

Bob Wheeler:
really,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
love that.

Bob Wheeler:
I appreciate that. Laura, you know, this has been such a great conversation. I think one of the things, and even though you didn’t name it, it felt like gratitude was a big piece of this. I really hear the gratitude, and I really appreciate the place where even as a kid, you’re able to say, I had some privilege, right?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
And

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
some people say, wait a minute. the only black woman or the only black child and all that. And you’re looking at going, this is where I belong. And

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes. Ha

Bob Wheeler:
this

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
ha ha.

Bob Wheeler:
recognition of, oh my goodness, some of my community didn’t have what I had.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
And you didn’t take yourself out because you didn’t have the house made, right? That there’s just this place

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
and it’s great that you have this resource to come back to that is actually happy, that

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
does want the world and your own self to be. Yeah, let’s show up in this way.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
And so I think cultivating gratitude, for some of us we have to cultivate it, but gratitude and choosing happiness, that is a choice.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
We can’t choose circumstance, but we can certainly choose how am I gonna respond to this?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
And I love that you have responded with, I’m showing up fully and I’m gonna tell my truth. I’m not. And I don’t even like that we expose our story, right? It’s that we let it be seen,

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
right?

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
There’s a difference there. It’s like, this is it.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
This is

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I’m

Bob Wheeler:
what

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
not

Bob Wheeler:
you

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
hiding

Bob Wheeler:
get.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
it. Yeah. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
And it’s all of me. So I really appreciate how you showed up today and how you’re showing

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Thank

Bob Wheeler:
up

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
you.

Bob Wheeler:
in the world. And tell us where people can find you online. I wanna hear about your book. You’ve got a podcast.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, I do. The podcast is called The Only One in the Room. We’re a little over four years now. I think we have 700 and something episodes. Each week someone comes on and I interview them about either a very unique experience or feeling othered, whatever, whatever, or maybe

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
both. They’re incredible stories and you’ll hear Scott, my boyfriend from rehab who’s still my partner. He’s my co-host and my producer, so shout out to him. So that’s the only one in the room. Our website is theonlyonepod.com.

And on there, you’ll find everything about me that includes the book, which is Dashed My Life in Hiding, that Simon and Schuster. You can go on their site and get it. You can get it from Amazon at Barnes and Noble.

I would really strongly suggest that instead of ordering an Amazon, and I love Amazon because it gives me good sales figures, but your local independent bookstore, independent bookstores are dying and they need our support. You can order my book through your local independent bookstore and they will send it to you or you can pick it up there, other books while you’re there picking up my book. But that just to remember that that’s an option and it’s an important one. You know, banks are closing.

I don’t want all the bookstores to go away too. It’s just so anyway, so that’s where you can find the only one pod.com. The place I live online is Instagram. It’s Laura Cathcart, C-A-T-H-C-A-R-T, Robbins, R-O-B-B-I-N-S. at Laura Cathcart Robbins and I respond to all my DMs every week, not the day they come in but by the end of the week you’ll get a response from me and I love to hear from you. So yeah, come find me, come check out the book and listen to the podcast.

Bob Wheeler:
That’s awesome. We’ll put all that up. You know, there’s one thing I was thinking as you were just sharing that, that I meant to bring up earlier, and I just have to name it as well as part of what I really was aware of. No blame.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Mmm.

Bob Wheeler:
Like, I didn’t hear a lot of, my ex did this, and my parents did this. And I think it’s so important, self-responsibility, and I just really wanted to name, I

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Ah.

Bob Wheeler:
really was aware of how… this was your story and not how everybody else did something to you. And so I just feel like that’s so important for

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Thank

Bob Wheeler:
people

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
you.

Bob Wheeler:
to have that awareness.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
I appreciate that and it is intentional. So

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
the fact that you’re noticing means a lot to me. Thank you.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. Laura, it’s been such a pleasure and

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes.

Bob Wheeler:
yeah, until next time.

Laura Cathcart Robbins:
Yes, thank you, Bob.