Reframing the Starving Artist Mindset. Dean Carey

G’day passengers, this is your captain speaking. Welcome to Australia.

[00:00:11] Dean Carey: What if you were okay, just the way you

were. And there’s more. Supposed to, I’m not okay, and I will be okay when I get the gig, when I get the award, when I get the accolade. Because if you’re doing that. I’ll be okay when then you’re forming a relationship to dissatisfaction all the way through so when you get the award It won’t satisfy you because you’ve built up so much dissatisfaction You go home what it is and a lot of artists go through I’ll be okay When

[00:00:40] Bob Wheeler: as we continue our journey in the land of Oz we stopped by to chat with Dean Carey the founder and director of the acclaimed Actor Center Australia.

With more than 35 years of experience in the acting industry, Dean brings a wealth of knowledge on the financial challenges that artists encounter. Dean understands the complexities artists face when it comes to managing their money. In this episode, we delve into the starving artist mindset and challenge the notion that artists must endure poverty to be considered great.

Can artists pursue their passion and still make a living from it? Join us as we explore this fascinating topic. I’m Bob Wheeler. And this is money. You should ask this podcast, our books, online courses, and newsletter all focus on awakening your money mindset. Our mission is to normalize conversations around personal finance, so we can better understand why we do what we do when it comes to money.

Well, I’m so excited because I’m sitting here with Dean Carey, the director and founder of actor center here in Australia. So I get to write this off as a business expense because I’ve. Come all this way, so let me ask you this you opened the center when you were 27 years old. Yes And so I’m wondering like what was the impetus to say at 27?

Yeah, I’m gonna open this actor Center I’m gonna I’m gonna make a go with this.

[00:02:16] Dean Carey: I know it was a crazy thing I’m but I began working professionally when I was 17, okay in TV So I was already working for 10 years before that But I studied at NIDA one of the drama schools here and then realized there was nothing after drama school There was no open programs.

There were no short courses There was nothing, the actors went through their course and then either got work or didn’t get work. There was nowhere to upskill, to call a community. And I went, and I love community. Communities were my favorite thing. So suddenly I went, let’s find an old place. We found an 1880 old church in Surry Hills, open the doors and away we went.

At

[00:02:52] Bob Wheeler: 27 you’re open that up. Was there still a desire to like, well, let me still, let me do some acting or no, I really didn’t. Like, this is my calling. And was there a

[00:03:02] Dean Carey: struggle? I love acting, but I didn’t enjoy the job of an actor. The role of an actor waiting for work. So when I began teaching, I just loved it so much.

But the funny thing was, um, I would be running reception at the actor center, right? So I’d be behind the till. And the little tickets for the classes, right? And they’d come in and go, I’m doing improvisation with Dean Carey, and I’d go, sure, here you go. I’d give them the ticket, you know, and they’d give me the money.

Then I’d close the cash and walk in and teach the class. And they must have gone like, Dean Carey mustn’t, mustn’t have arrived today, and the, and the secretary is gonna teach the class. So I was run, you know, running around, getting there early, opening up, cleaning, you know, all that stuff.

[00:03:42] Bob Wheeler: Knowing what you know, 27 year old Dean, would you do it again?

[00:03:47] Dean Carey: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the, the, the center is 35 years of age this year. It is as strong as a community as it’s ever been. Yeah. It has clean energy and we’ll talk, I know we’ll talk about my next book soon, but at some point what we do there, we strengthen the manager in each person to manage themselves.

Yeah. We embolden the artists so the artist feels they can take risks and rise up to the challenge and then we look after the person. Because the person’s a person as well, right?

And most drama schools don’t know that there’s three different aspects of us, right? They go the artist is not doing very well And that’s why you’re here and you better listen to us because right we’re the expert and you’re the idiot Yeah, I want my fingers up like that

[00:04:32] Bob Wheeler: Well, that’s to the rest of the studios

[00:04:36] Dean Carey: Unconscious so You know, in a lot of schools I’ve taught at, and a lot of students I know have gone through really unhealthy cultures at the out in schools, but the school has no idea it’s unhealthy.

They think they’re being as tough as the industry is going to be, and they start being tough now. And you go, well, what does it actually mean? What does it actually mean?

So we look after the person, the person feels like they’re a part of the community, that we want them there. And one of the golden things is I say to the students, what if on the first day, I would say, what if.

You’re okay. I’m not saying you have to be, but what if you’re okay given all that you know, all that you don’t know, all that you’ve learned, all that you don’t know, you haven’t learned yet, all of your misgivings and faults and fears. What if you were okay just the way you were and there’s more, there’s more to learn.

There’s time to grow this time to go, wow, what’s next this time to be curious as opposed to I’m not okay and I will be okay when I get the gig, when I get the award, when I get the accolade, I said, because if you’re doing that, I’ll be okay when then you’re forming a relationship to dissatisfaction all the way through.

So when you get the award. It won’t satisfy you, right? Because you’ve built up so much dissatisfaction. You’re going, Oh, what? Who cares? It’s only an award, right? Logie award. Who cares?

[00:05:59] Bob Wheeler: Right? I need that award.

[00:06:01] Dean Carey: Exactly. Then you get that award with a, and a lot of artists go through, I’ll be okay when, and that’s a pretty unhealthy place to be, but we can all go there

[00:06:12] Bob Wheeler: now.

Absolutely. And I’m wondering, at least in the U S my experience has been for a lot of people, right? Well, then you can’t have a family. You can’t have a relationship or only somebody that understands your pity party

And that the rest of that’s just for other people because I’ve chosen this path And there’s also maybe that that that need right that I’ve got a struggle to get success and maybe to what you’re talking about Sort of that starving artist like if I’m not starving then my art isn’t

[00:06:43] Dean Carey: pure.

That’s right I’m not in the right part right because I’m seeing other people In pain. So I should be in pain too. Yeah, it’s a very, I, the, the advice I used to give the third year’s graduates before they would enter the industry is, is. What else do you love? You love acting. You love being an industry.

What else do you love and what else could that thing? Maybe get you some money. Do you love walking dogs? Do you like gardening? Do you have personal training? Do you love who knows what it might be right, you know? And if you love that put your energy into that get some money there going so when you go to a casting You’re okay.

Right. You’re not going to the casting like Oliver saying, please sir, can I have some more? Right. So you’re not in

[00:07:28] Bob Wheeler: deficit. Yeah, and that’s hard. I, I remember going to auditions and Like it’s got to be this one. It’s got to be this one and a friend of mine said look every rejection is one step closer to a yes, but sometimes when you’re getting those no’s Oh, it’s terrifying.

And if you’re relying on that, if that’s your only source of income, I got to book this gig. And there’s a hundred other people that got to book this gig, and there’s only one role.

[00:07:53] Dean Carey: It’s tough. Well, it’s tough walking into the, into the waiting room and seeing eight people who look like you. Right. And look better than my, how you think you look and you go, well, he’s going to get it, obviously.

Right. Well, somebody else walks in. Oh, he’s going to get it for sure. Because he’s taller than me, sharper than me, whatever, you know, it’s a, it’s an awful, um, I suppose I should say now the manager artist person thing, the manager is the robust, logical, organized, rational, and the manager has your back, has the artist back.

So I tell the students, when you walk into the, to sign in, the manager walks in. Now the manager isn’t a fake role, the manager is you at your strong point. As I said, robust, clear headed, strong footed, you know, still nervous in the background. Sure. Okay. Like, sure, you know, but so that’s the manager walks in, the manager signs in, the manager sits there, the manager does the meet and greet.

Yeah. The manager says, can I use a chair? Can I use, I’ve got a prop to use. What frame size am I in? Manager. Yeah. And then you flip. We can flip easily into different roles. Easily. So you flip to your artist. Doing all the stuff that you have planned to do that, you know, the role requires and the scene requires, you know, it’s technique techniques definition is precision under pressure.

So you’re under pressure and you can still do it because you’ve got the technique to do it right, right. So the artist pulls their heart out until I hear the word cut. And then the manager goes, what else do you want from that? Right. What else can my artist give you for that? What do you mean more tears?

Great. We’ll do that. Flick. And then that’s how it works. And you walk out as the manager. Now, at some point you might sob down the alleyway going, Oh, I really want this job. And the person pipes up or the fearful artist pipes up, you know, but at some point the manager is going to self soothe you.

Interesting. They did a survey in the States many years ago about what kept couples together. And all the answers came back. It wasn’t. Was it how much they loved each other? Was it the shared values? Was it the sex? Was it the, they didn’t argue or how they argued? The top answer was the ability to self soothe, which I found fascinating.

So I’m, I’m not going to demand my partner soothe me. I’m going to have to do it. Right. Right. And so the manager is the self soother to the artist. Right. Going, you did great today. I know. I know you didn’t get it. You just got the phone call saying you didn’t get it. And that’s that sucks. Right? Let’s go on.

[00:10:37] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, that’s well, you know, it’s interesting. I’m thinking about comedy and right. A lot of comics need for the audience to love them and tell them they’re amazing and funny and special and unique. And when I was first doing stand up, I would bring somebody with me so that way in case I bombed, I had somebody that would say, but I still love you.

Right? You’re still lovable because we get into that story, but then also talking about these auditions and I’m thinking about, you can bring your A game and still not get the role. Because they needed somebody five inches shorter, they needed somebody with whatever it is, right?

And so. I used to work with this guy who said, you know, you got to have a mantra going in my mantra used to be I don’t know what works because it took all the pressure off because I don’t know what they want I don’t know what works.

So I’m just gonna I’m going to show up and if it’s right, they’ll pick me, if it’s not right, they’ll pick someone else, but taking it out of my hands that I’ve got to execute perfectly because they might just see a look or something that, that connects them and they’ll be like, that’s the one. That’s right.

That’s the one at all costs. Yeah.

[00:11:44] Dean Carey: So I tell the students in an audition casting, you’re not in control. Yeah. But you are in command of your focus and energy and your intention and your attention. So I said, focus on what you can command, let everything else be what it wants to be. And when they auditioned for the Actor’s Center, I said that on the beginning chat.

And I go, you’ve got to understand you don’t have control of the situation, but you are in command. You’ve got your character, you’ve got a fantastic story. We’ve got an audience here. We’re ready to listen to you. We’re ready to welcome your character into this space. Yeah. We do a warmup and suddenly you feel the room changes from the nervous artists that fearful, you know, into, wow, I have a good story to tell and I’m going to tell it.

[00:12:33] Bob Wheeler: And how do you like with, you know, we’re talking a little bit about the starving artist piece where you’ve got a. You know, be your purest by, by starving, but there’s also how to, you know, that balance of my passion to perform, to be seen for my, my gifts and then also being able to financially afford to eat and have a place to live like for myself, you know, when I was younger, people would say, Oh, you could do character acting.

You can make really good money. I was doing stand up. Oh man, there’s a path for you. I did not have a safety net growing up. And so fear was a motivator for me, scarcity was a motivator for me, and I did not want to be living in an apartment with six other people, I did not want to be wondering how I was going to pay for the rent,

and even when the opportunity came to be a writer, they’re like, no, you get like a gig in two years, you write, make a whole bunch of money, and then you don’t write for three years, I could not handle, I needed to know, and I’m wondering how you talk with people who, like, they’ve got this gift, and yet they’ve got to be able to,

[00:13:40] Dean Carey: Well, I remember I would talk to a lot of students who didn’t have any money, couldn’t afford the fees, couldn’t afford to live in Sydney or whatever, and going to get a job. And I, one girl in particular, I remember saying, what are you worth per hour? What do you think you’re worth? And she went, I’ve got no idea.

I said, well, what do you, what do you think? If you had to make a guest, I said, maybe 12 bucks. This was, what if it’s 30? She said, oh no, I wouldn’t be worth 30. Wow. I said, well, what if, what if you were? What do you think you’re doing? Oh, cleaning in a guest house, I mean, so what if you were the maitre d of the restaurant?

I said, you’ve got a fantastic look you’ve got a great voice when you’re on stage. You’ve got such a great command of your energy She went, oh, I said, have you got a CV? No We’ll go to office works and get some really good paper that you love and find a font that you love and come back Next week with your CB.

So she did that she got the maitre d job. Yeah, 35 an hour. She couldn’t believe it She was just shocked. I love it. I go three nights a week. I can pay my rent. I can pay for food I can pay go and see a movie. I can go and see a play and I can pay the fees. Yeah, but the person Didn’t realize that their manager was missing

And another girl in second year, I remember she was a wonderful painter and she was doing a work for somebody and she said, they’ve asked me for a price and I don’t know what to say.

And I said, well, the artist wants to give it away. Right, right. The artist will say, I’ve just spent six months of my life making art for you, have it by all means, you know, then go and cry. I said, so what, let’s talk to your manager, put your manager’s cap on. Yeah. How long did you work on it for? What resource did you need?

How many hours would you say overall? What are you worth an hour? I said the padding’s worth two and a half k. Two and a half grand. I couldn’t, and they said yes. Yeah, I saw it and said yes.

[00:15:29] Bob Wheeler: It’s so interesting that it seems like many artists whether it’s Painting whether it’s acting like there’s so many different ways to be an artist.

It takes a third person Perspective to tell us our value. Yes as the artist right not the manager, but as the artist do I have value? Is my gift enough? Is it pretty did it impact you and we can’t Seemingly go. Yeah this I own this. Yeah. I own my gift. Yeah. No, no, no. I, I,

[00:16:03] Dean Carey: can I offer it? Yes. Cause it comes from love.

Yeah. So a part of us goes, well, if I love doing it, why should I be paid for it? Right. And I learned at some point that, that money is a swap for time and energy. Right. So my first job, I was 16 working at big W and I was put on the microphone spruiking for three hours for a 16 year old. To get people in.

Right. I got my first pay packet, 12 and 63 cents, right? I was on the bus going home. I think it was 15 maybe bus going home going. I just made 12 and 53 cents. Cause I got up in the morning, had a shower, got dressed, went in there for three hours, gave of myself and then went home and suddenly something clicked that there was a swap happening.

It wasn’t me volunteering my time and then being grateful that I was, Acknowledged for it there was a swap and there’s agency in that swap right with a lot of actors don’t sort of get that sense of agency

[00:16:58] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, no, absolutely. And did you growing up? Have a sense of money and self worth. What was it like for a little Dean growing up in a family?

Did you your parents talk to you about money and gave you security? Like what what was that like? What was your story?

[00:17:15] Dean Carey: I grew up with the context that money was hard to come by. Yeah, really hard to come by and my dad’s parents were very wealthy I don’t know how but they were so whatever dad needed or mom needed they just paid for it So mom and dad never paid for anything But we never sort of had money didn’t feel like that.

So it wasn’t until I got my job and I went, wow, I’m worth 12 and 43 cents. And I went, wow. But I remember when I first began teaching, uh, I was, I hated taking the actor’s money. I hated it. They’d walk in the room. I had the music playing and go, hi John. Hi Mary. How are you going? Great night. You ready for a terrific night?

Yes. Great. And then I’d get my cash chin out and I’d, they’d line up and I’d hate putting my hand out for the money. Um, yeah. Now. I sort of got over that, but it took me a while because I felt awful at going, here we are, and this is going to be fantastic, but hang on, wait, you need to pay me first. Well, they should.

Yeah. And, and I had to get over that hump, because I was swapping hats. I was the artist welcoming them, and I the manager’s hat on, and then, yeah. Yeah, it’s very interesting.

[00:18:22] Bob Wheeler: You know, it’s when I studied at the Beverly Hills Playhouse one of the things that they talked about They really didn’t want to take credit cards when people paid.

Mm hmm. They wanted cash. They wanted to check They would take credit cards as I remember it was a big conversation about creating debt to go to school because as an artist Like, you don’t know where your next paycheck’s coming from. And they were, it felt very intentional to really help people stay grounded in the real world that, yeah, yeah.

I want to be an artist and I want to bring my gifts. And I still got to pay my bills and so let’s not create more bills by charging everything because the artists themselves, they’re just focused on the art, right? And, and, you know, people joke, there’s show business. It’s show business. It’s just not show.

It is the entertainment business, right? And as we were joking a little bit before, right? It’s not show business. It’s not show fairness. It’s not show equity. It’s. We have to show up in those different aspects or at least make sure we’ve got somebody advocating in our corner if we’re not able to do

[00:19:30] Dean Carey: it.

That’s right. And I know when I opened the Actors Center, things changed in my head about money because I had to make the rent, have to pay the electricity, etc. And there were things we wanted. I wanted better chairs than what we have. We had horrible old tin chairs from a hundred years ago. Right. So I would take money for courses and classes as low as I could possibly think, you know, but I would go.

If I make some more of that in the next month, I can buy new chairs. So suddenly money became produce. It became things that would make our lives better, right? So that month of money went into chairs. That next six months of money went into a new curtain. That next six months money went into painting all the windows.

And so suddenly I learned that money is energy, right? Money is energy. And so when I took the money in, I started thinking. This actor is getting energy from this weekend program and we’re charging 250. So it’s an exchange of time Energy, it’s not money. It’s it’s a note or it’s a credit card, but it actually is energy Yeah,

[00:20:37] Bob Wheeler: absolutely.

And when you started the Artist Center Right you from what you were saying it wasn’t. Oh, I’m gonna make two million dollars off of this right away It was how can I give to a community where there’s something that I feel is lacking and so it became out of In a way service or trying to give something that you saw missing versus, ah, I’m going to get rich

[00:21:02] Dean Carey: quick.

Yes, there was no intention, fortunately or unfortunately, of ever thinking it’s going to, it’s, I wanted it to pay its way and I wanted the building to be upgraded and the equipment and newer cameras and a bigger television set and more microphones and a better piano. And like suddenly the money coming in began to fund and fuel.

The center. But I remember on the, we had, we had an open day on the first day ever, and I’d put a big calendar out of all the people who were teaching and all the classes and things. And we got there and we’re painting signs and putting them up. And I turned to a friend of mine and said, what if nobody comes?

We had cakes made, we had muffins done. We had the coffee on everything, you know, it was on, I bought two palms by the door. So people walked in and felt like they were at home, you know? Yeah. And he said, look out the window. And I went across and there was a queue of people. Stretched across the courtyard.

Wow. Because they wanted a home. They wanted to feel like the tribe had somewhere to come, and they loved it, and they still love it 35 years later. I hope. Yeah, well, you

[00:22:07] Bob Wheeler: know, when you talk about community, it, it does, like, that feels so important. Being at the comedy store, Mitzi made the comedy store a place for the misfits, right?

Comics are misfits. They’re the lowest of the lowest. They’re, like, way below actors. In terms of, uh, personal stuff that they gotta work through, right? And, and God bless them, because they make us laugh. But Mitzi… It was all about creating this artist colony so that people had a place to go and find similar like minded people that just wanted to bring their gifts and bring their artistry and

So I think community I don’t think we give it enough credit or credence Yep and I know now there’s more about finding your tribe and stuff and I think we’re starting to go back to the roots of Some of the indigenous people and the other folks that are understood The value and the need

[00:22:59] Dean Carey: for a community.

Yeah. Well, community is common unity. It’s a lovely joining of those two words, you know, and people, people get that when they’re doing the show and the show finishes. I mean, I, when I finished directing the show and I’m often always the last person out, I stand here and look at the stage is now empty and the dressing rooms are now empty and that show’s gone, gone.

Luckily I can come back on the next day and teach and direct a new show. But if that was it and I was walking away to nothing, yeah, that’s why I say to the graduates, find something you love second to acting or maybe even equal, but second to acting that you can make some money off. So you, you’ve, you’re being fueled by something.

And your main passion and love is still there, but you’re being, you’re being supported, you’re supporting yourself and you’re able to self soothe this artist because you’re managing in the background. Yeah.

[00:23:54] Bob Wheeler: Well, you know, as you were talking about that, it made me think, I was in a play when I was in junior high, but it was the high school play and our, the director was from New York had been on Broadway.

And so they are, the high school there did like incredible productions. And a lot of the people went on to like. To be actors and stuff, but I was in this play, the king and I, and it, I think it ran for like four weeks. It was like six months or five months of rehearsal and stuff. And I remember, because my childhood was good and bad.

It wasn’t the best. And that was a place I got to escape. And when that play was over, I felt such a loss. That was a place where I got to thrive. I got to be seen. I was like, I had a role. And I think in the real world, I didn’t know what my role was. And so. It was gone. Whereas the director and, and the people with the stage, they get like, they get to see new things coming in.

But as an actor, I didn’t know where my next gig was going to come that was going to fulfill me. And I think I got so caught up in that. In a way, cause I didn’t want to deal with the reality. I didn’t want to be the manager or the person. I just wanted to be, I just

[00:25:01] Dean Carey: wanted to escape. There was a cliff you fall off when a show finishes for a lot of people.

I mean I remember at school, I was bullied a lot at school, really badly. I was overweight, I had a lisp, I didn’t feel I fitted in, I was a loner in the school yard. Uh, often assaulted really by a lot of the boys and the staff, the CIS, unfortunately, uh, uh, the sisters were so cruel that I went to the brothers and they were even crueler.

And then finally though we were offered, you could do sport on the Wednesday afternoon or you could do drama. And I just went, well, I can’t do sports cause I just get knocked down and trampled, you know? So I’ll drama sounds good. And I used to love drama. I used to love. TV and all the afternoon TV shows, escape, you know, so in my first class, I sat on the ground and a woman, female teacher walked in Maureen Stewart and said, um, I look forward to working with you all and welcome.

And I went, I’m sorry. Okay. There’s no blackboard whiteboard chairs. There’s no strap. We’re on the floor. And that was when I fell head over heels in love with what acting can do and what it’s for, you know, and what, how it can move an audience. I wasn’t usher for many years. And I’m, I still say to this day, I think a lot of people have their most meaningful experiences in the cinema.

For sure. I’d see people walking down the aisle, sobbing after one for the coolest nest or whatever the film was. And I’d go. I bet you don’t have that reaction at home, or never let that out to your girlfriend or your wife. But in that dark and cinema, you couldn’t know it. Wow. What an amazing thing we’re doing, holding a mirror up to human nature and for the audience to sit there with nothing to do, but to watch the good, the bad, and the ugly of what we are.

[00:26:50] Bob Wheeler: It’s a safe space in a way, right? To see the horrors of humanity and the beauty of humanity, like the pain, the suffering, and all of it. We can laugh we can cry and in the dark. Yes, and and we can have all those emotions that we wouldn’t other you know Yeah, I wasn’t crying. Yeah, it was okay.

[00:27:11] Dean Carey: It was okay.

My wife and I watched lion the movie line. Oh, yeah We finished it and a box of tissues each and then I just said we have to watch it again She’s doing press play and watched it again. I came I spoke to the students next time I said The crew and cast worked for, I don’t know how many months and put their blood, sweat and tears and love and passion and sense of wonder.

I wonder what could happen with this film. I wonder what could happen with this scene. I wonder what could happen with this atmosphere behind the scene. And they package it for it to play all around the world and to be a transformative experience for the strangers that we’ll never meet. It’s quite amazing.

I said that, I said, when we. Do a show, um, unless your mother’s in the audience or right next door neighbor, we don’t know them, but we’re putting everything into it to give them an experience that’s worth their time, effort, and money. I interviewed Ian McKellen a number of years ago and he said to me, Oh, people, it takes a lot for somebody to get to the theater.

He said, they’ve got to buy the tickets, they’ve got to get car parts, they’ve got to get babysitting, they’ve got to. I haven’t did around somewhere. There’s a drinks at interval and he lowered his glasses and looked at me and said, the least we can do is our best. And I went and I dropped him off that night for his show.

Um, at waiting for God. Oh, and he got out of my car, put his backpack on the actress in a backpack. I bought him, um, wave to me, put his scarf on, disappeared amongst all the tourists. And I thought you’re going to go on stage and do a three and a half hour show where you’re the driving force of it. You’re, yeah.

What was he then 78 probably? Yeah, the least we can do is our best and I went I’ll never forget that ever Yeah,

[00:28:56] Bob Wheeler: it’s so true. I mean in comedy comics will get mad at the audience and I’ve said the same thing They paid for a babysitter. They just bought two drinks at least. They’ve gone to all this trouble.

It’s not their responsibility to make us feel good about ourselves. That’s right. Right? They just came out to have a night of like escape. They’re not looking for like, yeah, I hope that guy on stage needs me to make him feel good. Yeah. Like, they’re like, I’m off the clock. Yeah.

[00:29:21] Dean Carey: And I tell the students, I said, the people, unless they’ve been dragged and hounded into the theater or the comedy store, which is probably not the case.

They’ve already bought the ticket. Right. They’re on the ride. They’re ready. They’re ready. So you bring your readiness to theirs and it’s a match Yeah, you’re not trying to live up to something or win them over. They’re already there. Yeah

[00:29:43] Bob Wheeler: How do you deal with people like, you know, there’s like I bet this happened to me I saw some guys that I had Been doing some comedy with at coffee houses and they said, oh, I haven’t seen you in a while I said, oh i’m i’m performing at the comedy store and i’m doing this.

Oh, you’re a sellout Oh, you’re a sellout. You’re at a commercial venue and you know, there are actors that like oh now you’re doing Oh, you’re doing the silly show. I like to make fun of 9 1 1. Um, but uh, you know, like you’re not, you know You’re angela bassett. How come you’re not doing this stuff like Where’s that place about, where’s that line of, Oh, artistic integrity or selling out or now you’re not really an artist anymore because you’re doing really well and so you’ve, you’ve gone commercial, you’ve commoditized

[00:30:27] Dean Carey: your activity.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s so true. I think that’s, isn’t that Bill Murray’s character in Tootsie when he’s sitting around and he’s going, we’re doing off something somewhere in a, in a shed. Three people will come. We hope to leave during the show and we’ll make no money and we’ll come home starving and cold, but we will have done it.

And you go, What? Oh, you know, no. I mean, as you said before, show business, you know, and you’ve got to get work where you can and, and, and learn new skills. I One of the things I, uh, do at Actors Centre, which is, we call it best thing, next thing. So we go, so a student will finish working on the stage and I’ll go, they’re monologuing and I’ll go, what was the best thing about that for you?

They could just go like, make something up. Well, it can’t be, it’s gotta be, you know, and they might say that, well, the best thing was like, I got up. I actually got up because I was quite scared. So I’m up here. I said, great. So the best thing for me also is the fact that you got up cause I knew last week you were sort of hoping not to get to you.

And I said, the fact that you’re up there is terrific. So what’s next? Trust the character a bit more. I said, yeah, Hamlet or whoever it is got fantastic ideas. Share them with us. Let’s go. Now that that’s a 30 second conversation, but it soothes, strengthens, cares for, and makes you curious about what’s next.

And my best thing can’t be, Oh, my best thing is I can’t make it up. It’s got to be authentic. But that 32nd communication is such high quality communication that what happens with the character next is also high quality. Oh, I say to the students, you know, when you go for an audition, what was the best thing?

And when you walk out, what was the best thing? I remembered their names. Great. Next thing, get there earlier. I panicked. I parked, ran. Get there earlier. Get there early. Yeah. So you go, great. Learn, learn something. And I’ve got their names right. So you’ve got two things taken away. So as opposed to, oh, I’m so late, etc.

I think it’s a really good strengthener that best thing goes like, you’re okay. Yeah. You’re okay. Next thing, cool. Yeah. Get there early. Good idea. Yeah.

[00:32:38] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And I think, you know, as you’re talking about that, it’s whether it’s an audition, whether it’s a commercial, whether it’s a movie, it’s my next gig, right?

It’s paying for things. I remember this. Episode I watched the first couple seasons of glee or fame. Oh is fame and I loved all that stuff right because I got to escape but I remember there was a teacher coming in for just a temporary teaching and all the kids were making fun of him because he did

butter commercials or something right and he was this actor and now he did butter commercials and so he knew that everybody was sort of making fun of him right and he was older and he gets up in front of the class and he does a monologue from Shakespeare right.

And the kids are like, but then he stops and he says, that butter commercial paid for my family, paid for my house. Yeah, he knew it was a butter commercial. He knew it wasn’t Shakespeare, but he also understood the piece about show business and that he wasn’t better than his next role. Um, he was just open to what came his way.

And sometimes what comes our way isn’t exactly the choice we would have made. But it’s an opportunity that’s coming. Are we gonna let it pass us by or are we gonna take the opportunity

[00:33:54] Dean Carey: and seize it? That’s right. I remember years ago. I was going for audition for a physical comedy commercial for a bank.

Now, I love physical comedy I just I always had pratfalls and all that stuff. So there has no lines in it at all And I went like I’m up for it. He said can you fall off a roof and I went okay I’ve gotten to the table and fell off the roof. Can you do this? Yeah, you know Got the commercial 27, 000. Now, 27, 000 back then was like 250, 000 now.

Yeah, exactly. I was like going, Oh my gosh. Then it rolled over the next year. Then it went onto the drive in movies as an advert and a commercial. I got more money. Then it went billboards because the commercial was so successful. Yeah. I made, that money went into the bank. And for the first time I went.

Holy hell, it’s really good, right? It’s really good, and you know, and it bought things. I think it bought the The down payment on my first apartment. Yeah from that commercial. Not bad. Yeah, not

[00:34:56] Bob Wheeler: bad What do you tell the students like that are that are coming out here? What do you how do you tell them or do you tell them or the guidance about this?

starving artists mindset versus the business and versus Artistic integrity versus paying the rent. Do you talk a lot about that? Do you make sure that’s Um, at least on the radar for students.

[00:35:16] Dean Carey: Definitely. I mean, going back to the map book, I had to give a speech in Queensland and I was on the plane flying up and this map thing, although it started off as Pam first, it was person, artist, manager.

And I thought, Pam’s not going to be a very good book, I don’t think. So I swapped it to map, but I went, wow. When a student comes to talk to me, I’m either the manager, the person, or the artist for them. I didn’t realize it’s for all those years. Right. Right. So whenever I talk to someone, Um, it seemed to be quite effective for them, it helped them.

So I didn’t realize like when a girl comes in and said, look, I’ve, I’ve left Perth and I’ve lost my friends and boyfriends over there and we’re sort of, it’s tricky. And you know, I’m not the manager going, well, you should be, you’re lucky to be here. Get back to class. What are you doing with me now? Like, come on, we’ve got bigger problems to fry than this.

So I go, yeah, it’s Perth, it’s a long, it’s, you’re a long way away. That must be really hard. We sit there with that. So I’m playing person to person with them. And at some point in that conversation, I might go, what about you organize a Skype call with your mom and dad once a week. Could something bug, something regular, some ritual thing and she went, Oh, maybe.

So I’m easing her from the person in pain who’s being listened to. Into a bit of a, how might we look at this differently or manage it? Yeah, um, when a person might come in and say, I’m really struggling with cost here in the seagull and I go, right So what, what, what scene are you looking at? Let’s, and I’m in artist mode.

I’m not in director mode or manager mode or person mode. The three aspects are really, really important and the, when the person’s in pain They need to be listened to and acknowledged. Like if someone breaks up, they come, you’re out with them and they say, I’ve just broken up with my boyfriend. There’s no point saying there’s plenty more fish in the sea, they’re going to go, what are you saying?

My heart’s broken. Life is over. You know? So what you need to do is go, shit, that’s bad. And Oh my God, I feel so sorry for you. You know? Oh my, you’ve got to be in that place with him. So there’s a time and a place to be in the person’s pain or whatever the, you know, their excitement or their whatever. Yeah.

But all three are really important. And when you look at Michael Jackson, Michael Hutchins, Whitney Houston, Marilyn Monroe, um, Amy Winehouse, or you go through the hundreds of people who are not with us anymore and you go, the artist was extraordinary. Where was the manager? Or did you trust someone to be your manager who took all your money?

Right. Because you weren’t managing the manager. Right. So I say all three are really important and all three have their different skillsets and all three need to be acknowledged. And listen to it.

[00:37:57] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, and as, as you’re talking about that, I was thinking about mentorship, which is really part the manager and part the person, I guess.

I have a friend who’s a very successful actress now, but when she was starting out, and she had a strong belief in herself, but she was working in this, uh, with this group of people, and the lady kept saying, You’re too fat, and lose five pounds, and then, and then she would get up and do something, and everybody’s like, that’s brilliant, and she’s like, that’s just ridiculous.

And. This woman just had a chip, right. And my friend finally got enough confidence at one point to go back and say, like, I’m done with this, but maybe you should take your negative anger and stop directing it at, uh, artists who are trying to bring their crafts and go, like, direct it somewhere else because you are not helping anybody.

Yeah, right. And like, but most people would have sat there. Many people would have sat there and just said, I’ll just keep taking the abuse because to be pure. I must suffer. That’s right. Right? And not be able to find the, the person or the manager that says, okay, this is abuse. Yeah. This is not okay. That’s right.

And I think as an artist, sometimes we’re afraid that we lose the opportunity to be the artist if we set a boundary. Yep. Or say, I’m worth more.

[00:39:17] Dean Carey: Exactly. It’s a different voice. It’s a different voice. I know there was a friend of mine in the cast and the cast was very unhappy with money or something. And he went to talk to the producers about it and he went in as the manager and he got the deal done.

Yeah. He got their, uh, their parimes put up or they got better accommodation, whatever it was. But he went there and put the case forward as the manager. Because if you’d sent one of the artists to him, you would have ended badly, really badly. Well, one, one thing I should say is at actor center. And when I say this, when I’m giving talks, some people get really angry at me, but I say, we don’t use the person’s personal life in anything we do on stage.

Right. Nothing. It doesn’t mean they won’t reference it on stage. Right. It doesn’t mean they go, look, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve know a bit about this. I’ve gone through it. Great. It might help the context. A lot of teachers will say. Is your grandfather dead? Yes. Did you love him? Yes. Okay. So bring a chair over and kneel next to the chair.

You’re at his bedside. Tell him how you feel to the student. Neil starts crying, you know, then the teacher will say monologue switch and they’ll go to be or not to be wonderful. Like fantastic. Not acting, but it’s amazing. And, and the students sitting there going like, Oh my God, Danny, that was the best work you’ve ever done.

So Danny’s getting hugged. Danny’s crying. And I go, you had to exhume your grandfather out of the ground in order to mine your artistry. Right. And then you used your memories, which are beautiful and honorable, to fuel acting. So what we do at Actor Center, we use our universal understanding. Right. Not our personal.

So we would never say to someone in class, did you love your grandmother? Did you have a breakup? Have you had your heart broken? No. We’ll say, we’re looking at heartbreak in the scene. The idea of heartbreak, and I mean, we had our hearts broken in the first 10 seconds of being born. We can’t speak, we can’t ask for anything, we don’t know where we are, we can’t even focus.

We can’t stand up and

[00:41:28] Bob Wheeler: they’re like, Oh, you too.

[00:41:32] Dean Carey: So a little kid goes through the universal pain and suffering and confusion that Shakespeare’s plays are based on in the first 24 hours of their life, being put into a crib and left in the dark crying. No one comes to mean, I don’t think we need to find out from that person what happened to them when they were three, when their dog got run over.

And if they bring it up, we go, let’s. Move into the universal understanding of that heartache, you know, so therefore when people are on stage, they’re not exhuming anybody, they’re not going back through bad breakups. So what we’re really doing is managing the person not to fuel their artistry by their pain.

Now, some teachers, and I won’t name who they are, have made their studios based upon this. Right. We’re going to use your pain, your dysfunction, your heartache to fuel all of these characters. So the more you let us know what you’ve gone through, the better you’ll be. Well, that’s so unhealthy.

[00:42:36] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. Cause then you don’t ever really actually get to heal cause you got to keep bringing dead grandma or whatever and you never actually get to.

[00:42:46] Dean Carey: Yeah. You’re re triggering the trauma overnight. And then of course you’re on stage going, if I don’t, what if your grandfather doesn’t make you cry anymore? It’s not your grandfather making you cry. It’s the character’s pain that you’re honoring every night. It’s a whole different thing. So when you walk off stage, you can bow, you can.

You can clap the audience, you can say, thank you for coming as opposed to, Oh, thanks grandfather. You’ve given me another night of performance, right? It’s wrong. It’s wrong.

[00:43:16] Bob Wheeler: No, absolutely. Well, if I, so I want to take that and then take it back to self worth and money as an energy. Tying it together or maybe not tying it together, right, but there’s so many actors out there where oh, I didn’t cry on cue I’m not enough.

I’ve got to be over the top. Where does self worth value Artistry, humanity, like where does that all come together and how do we navigate that or how do you see artists navigating being able to be okay with, yeah, I’ve got money and it’s okay to have money, not, oh, you must start, like, get rid of that money because you’re not pure anymore, um, and my self worth is only in my pain as opposed to my self worth is in my appreciation of what I can bring, not just bringing

[00:44:09] Dean Carey: my pain.

Yes. Yes, it’s great. I mean, we could talk so long. Yeah,

[00:44:15] Bob Wheeler: that question isn’t that because it’s so it’s for me It’s like the root. Mm hmm, right? We’re wounded. We want to express we want to bring our gifts So maybe not everybody’s wounded, but we all have Something

[00:44:28] Dean Carey: we bring. Mm hmm. I think Balance is really important, which is where the manager artist or artisan and person comes into play We’ve got to have balance How many actors do I know that finally got a gig, made 10, 000 and blew it in the first month?

Right. Because they go like, well, I’ve been starving for so long. I’m now going to fuel myself with whatever it is, drugs, alcohol, food, fancy trip overs, whatever it might be. And the money’s gone. Right. So the artist is not responsible sometimes for being able to make good decisions. Right. Whereas the manager is a champion of the artist.

Right. And looking after the person saying, you just made 10 K. He didn’t blow two of it. Knock yourself out. Right. It’s like opening night. Everyone’s there. They love the show. The party is in full swing. The party costs 25, 000 just to put on. Everyone’s loving it. Everyone’s dressed up. It gets to one o’clock in the morning.

The manager taps the artist on the shoulder and says. Matinee tomorrow, because the artist will be there till five o’clock, right? Licking the bottom of the punch bowl.

[00:45:34] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, I had

[00:45:35] Dean Carey: a ball. It was faint. Where’s everyone gone? Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve got to manage ourselves and look after ourselves. I did a lot of work on myself because I carried a lot of pain, a lot of pain through various things across my life.

And it was important that the money I made as an actor. I put into some therapy, so I was healing my personal long way. I was teaching and making money because I loved it so much. The acting thing came and went and then suddenly went, you know, I remember taking actor off my CV and going, this is terrible.

This is terrifying, right? My whole job. That’s who I thought I was. And I went director, teacher, writer. I remember my, my very famous, um, agent in Sydney said to me, you can’t be a teacher and an actor. You can’t, she said you can’t. You could just choose one of them and I went, well, I’m doing both. I love both.

She said, well, you can’t. I said, well, I sort of am, like I sort of am and I will. And I did, you know, this idea that we’ve got to somehow fit into a very narrow lane. And that’s our lane. And you go, well, like when I say to people in the back thing, I say, when are you a great manager? And they go, Oh, when I’ve got to wash the dogs, you know, Oh really?

Yeah. I’m really good. I’m really good with them. My energy is clean. I do you? A great manager. I’m actually running a bar. I love running the bar and everyone respects me and I respect them getting run. Okay. Right. So can that person who goes to run the bar, do you tax? Oh no, I couldn’t do the tax. Great. Not possible.

You go, but you are the manager. So borrow that skillset over into this context. You can. You had to give yourself permission to do that, but they’ve got this on that over there and then this over here, right? And I go, you’re already doing it. So why don’t you help this person out? Right? And they go, oh my god Yeah, and some people come back to me.

It’s a week after that. I did my tax Like I hadn’t done the three years. I did my tax all three years of it and you go. Well, do you feel better? Yeah, it’s energy. It’s energy. You you deserve to do your tax not this whipping. I’m an artist I’m right brain. I can’t do it. Right? Of course you can. We can switch.

And you’re allowed to borrow skill sets from one, one domain into another.

[00:47:56] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. And if you know, okay, there are certain things, cause I do get this a lot from my artists. I’m right brain. So I’m going to talk to you for three minutes about money and then I’m going to turn off. Right? And I’m like, okay, I have three minutes.

Like, and I’m like, go. And like, cause I got three minutes and then I see it. They’re like window closed. Yeah. Even if there are things that you aren’t good at if you at least know yourself right as an artist It’s so important to know ourselves to be able to say yep. This is a strong suit This is where I’m pretty good.

And you know what here at the moment. It’s not where I’m great So let me bring in another person. Let me bring in my support my mentors. Yep, my community Yep to help me in those places where I need a little lift. I need a little help. It doesn’t make us less than If we know ourselves, it doesn’t make us less than to know where we need to ask for help.

[00:48:49] Dean Carey: Exactly. And, and I think that’s the question you asked. It’s about self reflection, I think. The more we can reflect on what we are good at when we fall over, what leads us to falling over, how good do we feel when we get it done? So begin with the end in mind. Yeah. That’s always a good thing. Like, you know, when I’ve got it, I used to hate doing my tasks, but I go.

Okay. By five o’clock today, I will have all these receipts done. I will have my tax done. It’ll be off the plate. And then sometimes I do it with before five o’clock. It’d be two o’clock in the afternoon. I go, folks should take me hours because the end feeling I started with, which is I’m going to feel so good when this is done.

See the ends, right?

[00:49:31] Bob Wheeler: See what we’re going to become. Be it. I’m going to finish my taxes. Yeah. I’m going to get this role. Whatever

[00:49:37] Dean Carey: it might be. Yeah. And that other quote, do the thing and you’ll get the energy to do the thing. Yeah. You know, and like some people will sit there and go, Oh, I’ve got to go to the gym.

I don’t feel like going to the gym. Their gym bag’s right there. They go, I’m going to the gym. Let’s hit 10 o’clock in the morning. By two o’clock in the afternoon, they still don’t want to go to the gym. And then at some point they go, I’m going to the gym. Pick up the bag. They go, they come back in two hours.

I feel great. Yeah. Why did I pontificate for five hours about going to the gym? So do the thing and you’ll get the energy to do the thing. I love it. And there’s, there’s something about, you’re in command of your energy and your focus. I did a, a pilot for a new talk show. I was the host called On Stage Tonight and I had a cross, live cross to an actor in New York on Broadway at a certain time, right?

I had three guests coming, I had a band, I had the whole thing going. Well, the day before we shot the pilot, I stood in the stairs. And my person said, if you tripped right now, you wouldn’t have to do it tomorrow night. You could just trip down the stairs and hopefully really hurt yourself. Then you got a really good excuse to go, I can’t come in.

And I was literally going, that’s a way out. That’s a way out. That was my little person in pain. But then my manager and champion said, Dean, this is your idea to do the show. Everyone’s come. Do it. You’re gonna love it. So I know when I can fall over, or literally, or metaphorically, and when I need to pick myself up.

And I’ve now got that voice that can, I mean, I remember I taught at Yale in New Haven, north of New York, teaching the fourth year directing students and the third years and second years in a class. I was 25 years of age. So here I am walking around Yale University grounds and looking at all the alumni and walking around going, who the fuck are you?

What do you think you could do? But I love teaching so much, right? So I put the music on and got ready. They walked, they looked in the door going, what’s this music pumping, funky music? I said, come on in. We had the best class. The best class. I packed up. The guy said, And that was incredible. He said, I watched, I was going to watch, I watched the whole thing.

He said, will you come back next year? I said, sure. So I walked out, put my backpack on, walked through, got to the road, about to go on the Amtrak to come back to New York. So I was staying there and this voice said, don’t be too big. It was just one class. It was a fluke. And I literally, like a cartoon character, my shoulders crumbled and I went.

It maybe it was just a fluke and I gave that voice energy and that voice was my disempowered self. You know, now if that voice comes back, I’m 63, that voice comes back. I’m not going to give it much energy, but it’s my frightened boy, right? It’s the nail biting kid at school. He’s still in there somewhere.

Yeah. I just manage it. When, if it happens.

[00:52:37] Bob Wheeler: Well, as you share that, I was thinking about, you know, because I’ve had to speak before and sometimes get up and prompt to speak and, or you do comedy or whatever you’re doing. Most people in the audience, they don’t care what you say, right? They’re just grateful They’re not up there having to frickin figure it out And so if I say A B or C, they’re all great answers.

That’s right. There’s no wrong Yeah. Yeah. Like if you’re showing up. Yes. Yes. Because everybody else is just like, thank God. Yeah. They’re doing it. Yes.

[00:53:10] Dean Carey: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s so interesting how we can get in our own way. But that self reflection is probably the most powerful tool to go, okay, Dean, where are we at?

What’s happening now? But I think it goes back to balance. Goes back to

[00:53:23] Bob Wheeler: balance. So Dean, we’re at the Fast Five and we’re going to shift up the energy just a bit. Right. The Fast Five is brought to you by The Money Nerve. If you want to have a healthier relationship with money or you want to explore your relationship with money you can go to our free quiz at testyournerve.

com Right. Right. Because we all have a money story. Yeah,

[00:53:42] Dean Carey: we want that relationship to be really good. We

[00:53:44] Bob Wheeler: do. And stories have a cost. And sometimes it’s something we want to pay for and sometimes… It’s costing us our life or our passion. And so we got to know our stories.

[00:53:53] Dean Carey: Yeah So what I love about that too is I remember hearing one person say once that we’ve already paid the price, right?

We don’t have to pay twice right to shift So rather than going like I’ve been doing this all of my life and it’s cost me tip. You’ve paid the price, right? Don’t pay for anymore. Yeah, don’t move on.

[00:54:13] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, love it. Love it. Love it. Well here we’re gonna we’re gonna switch We’re just gonna have a little little fun.

Let’s see where it takes us. All right, so What is the last thing you bought that made you feel like a

[00:54:22] Dean Carey: millionaire? Oh, I bought a Darth Vader helmet yesterday. Which actually fits me and I put it off in in my games room yesterday and walked around with the breathing thing happening I was going I felt amazing this that with a vest

[00:54:38] Bob Wheeler: that’s as I remember the first Star Wars movie and they didn’t have You couldn’t watch it again and again.

Mm hmm. So I went to the movie theater like 14 times I was like and I just yes,

[00:54:47] Dean Carey: that was the movie. Yeah, it was I was an usher 17 1977 The, the Hoyt’s place next door said, um, we’re going to midnight screaming screening tonight. I went, what’s the thing called? He said, it’s called our style was when, what, what is that?

I sat in the front row, the curtains went, John Williams score began. I went, I’m in, I’m in all

[00:55:07] Bob Wheeler: my life. I had been reading about it for a couple of years. They kept saying there was this movie coming out. And so I was like, I can’t forget this because it sounds right. And then when I came, whoa, that, that changed

[00:55:18] Dean Carey: moviemaking.

Yes. I think it changed

[00:55:20] Bob Wheeler: it. Yes. What’s the most absurd thing you’ve ever done for money? Ooh,

[00:55:24] Dean Carey: I dressed up as a gorilla in Melbourne to open the first ever video games arcade. So I was, uh, dressed up as a gorilla with flyers handing out and I jump onto trams and I’d go down Burke street and I’d run around in this gorilla thing until a group of five guys got me down a laneway and they put their cigarette butts through the eyelids of my mask.

So. I was dressed as a gorilla trying to keep the things from burning my face and I all left me so I, I felt pretty bad down that lane way, but I put the suit back on again and, and I got my money that night and I went, no, I’m, I’m doing it. Wow. The best thing was standing out in the front of the store as if I wasn’t alive.

Right. Holding them with a bit of a slight odd, not a very good model. Right. And when someone took the flyer, I just. I just congrat, I go screaming down the street. So I got a lot of people into that place.

[00:56:24] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. I don’t, I don’t like to be scared, so when those people pop out of bush, I sometimes accidentally hit them cuz it’s a reaction.

Yeah. Yeah. I freak out. Yeah,

[00:56:32] Dean Carey: yeah,

[00:56:32] Bob Wheeler: yeah. You can fought or flight. Don’t scare me. I’m, I might hit you . What’s your favorite way to celebrate a financial win

[00:56:40] Dean Carey: would probably be buying something from the games room because I’ve, I’ve got, I love. Not toys. I’m talking about design. Yeah. Costumes, uh, masks. I mean, I love all that artistry that goes on with all that.

Yeah. So I’ve built up quite a collection over the years with tall figures and I’ve got 135 light sources in this big, large space at my home and I love it. So it probably goes into something like that or it might be a great meal out. But whatever it is, it, it, it, it fuels me. Yeah. It makes me feel good. I wouldn’t go on a binge with alcohol or I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t drugs or I wouldn’t do that.

It would be something that would, would fuel

[00:57:24] Bob Wheeler: me. Yeah. And I think it’s so important to stop and consciously celebrate the wins because I think we don’t do that enough.

[00:57:31] Dean Carey: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where the person can let their hair down a little bit at that moment there, because you’ve managed it.

The artistry is, they’ve done their thing and the person can go, wow, it’s come together.

[00:57:42] Bob Wheeler: So I love that. I love that. What’s the weirdest thing you’ve ever purchased when you were feeling like

[00:57:47] Dean Carey: emotional? As a kid, I used to paint the little models that I’d buy. They’re all coming out now. Like I had in my room, Frankenstein, Creature from the Black Lagoon, The Mummy.

Um, hunchback of Notre Dame, vampire, you name it. I had them all. Uh, I painted them all. They were glow in the dark. Right. And I’d always buy one every week if I could. And, and my mother or father wouldn’t come into my room cause it was full of just all that sort of stuff. I didn’t realize until years later that that was my undischarged feeling of not being wanted.

So all those models were misfits. All of them. And Frankenstein handed down by the township and, you know, Creature in the Black Lagoon, forced back in, like all that stuff. I had no idea that was little Dean going, I feel like a freak and I don’t belong. And it came out in all those models. I wish I’d kept them now.

Wow.

[00:58:43] Bob Wheeler: That’s good. I used to do airplanes and cars and paint them in the glue,

uh, maybe a little too much.

Oh, the memories. What is the main emotion you feel when it comes to money?

[00:59:00] Dean Carey: It’s really changed now because now it’s, it goes back to the energy thing and what it will provide. I don’t feel like I’m a pauper lucky to have it anymore. Like I’ve just started being the trivia quiz master down here because I love it.

I just love I love performing. I love being up there I love doing it and gives me a bit of money of risk But that money that I get the 250 a week I said to my wife that will pay for one clean a month It will pay for us to go to a nice restaurant once a month, it will pay for that new gardening we want done.

So suddenly I’m, when I go to the trivia and I think, I’ve got my microphone, my mixer, my amplifier, my speakers, my, that’s 10 plants, two dinners out, two cleans of the house. And I go, yeah, great. And I was hacking up at bloody 11 o’clock at night and dragging the suitcase down the road to find my car to go home.

I go, no, no, it’s really worth it. So I, I see money now. My relationship is that money is just money. It’s what, it’s what it will do in my life for me and other people. That’s the important thing. Yeah. I don’t try and store it. I don’t try and hide it. I go, what, what’s its best use? And they asked me recently whether I wanted a raise or for the trivia thing.

And I found myself going, a little part of me wanted to say yes, but I went, no, I’m comfortable for the moment. I’m happy. That’s, that’s a good exchange. It might change next year. Right. But I’m good for now. Yeah. Well, I would have at one point said, no, I’m fine. Then gone, why didn’t you say something? Right.

You know. Or blown it by, I don’t know, I’ve got a very different relationship with money now. I think it’s a functional one. It was dysfunctional before. Sure. It was passive aggressive before. Right. Yeah, yeah. A codependent relationship. For sure. But I think, yeah, it’s very different now. And I never thought that would happen.

Yeah. I thought I’d always be in a deficit position. Right. And just lucky that some comes along. But not anymore. Yeah. And many of us do that. Mm. Many

[01:01:06] Bob Wheeler: of us. Yeah. If probably not most. Or the M& M’s. Oh, the sweet spot, money and motivation. Can you give us a practical tip or a piece of wealth wisdom, something that’s personally worked for you, whether it’s for an artist, for anybody, like just…

[01:01:21] Dean Carey: Something you’ve learned about money. I sometimes have bought something that represents something that I’m dealing with at the moment and I don’t know, or I’ve, um, made a little, not an altar, but I’ve put something like my, my dog died recently and that was a, that was a 16 year relationship that’s just gone, you know, and it wasn’t until Bailey went that I went 90% of my communication by day was to that dog, right?

So that entire frequency, 90% of my frequency. Um, died with the dog. Right. And I went, Oh my God, I’m not saying good girl. Come on, we’ll go for a walk. How about a bone? Let’s go. I was mute. It was horrible. So I had to, I bought something that reminded me of her from a antique store and I put that on my dresser and that’s helped me deal with it.

So whether that’s. Yeah. An answer. Yeah. Well, I’ve certainly, I think a visual thing that somehow I, you can relate to or that helps. I

[01:02:17] Bob Wheeler: see the self doubt like, no, it was, was that the right answer that the actor that’s like,

[01:02:24] Dean Carey: yeah, I was going, I suppose I want people to think that that’s what they have to do.

Is this what I did? But yeah, I mean, once again, that’s me acknowledging the person in pain. Not because I managed her last day on the planet. Incredibly, I couldn’t have managed it any better and all the, all the things that happened. I was like, they’re like a rock for that dog. Yeah, for everything that she went through and my wife, but when the vet drove away, I fell apart.

I was, I went from manager to the person, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it’s about once again, soothing, self soothing and looking at yourself. And the artist does want to whip. Right. They often want to whip, not good enough, not there, we’ll be okay once I get there. You know, what about being okay now? Right.

What about that as an idea? And

[01:03:15] Bob Wheeler: it’s okay to be okay with our pain at our celebrations and everything in between. Yeah. We don’t have to, I had so much trouble when other people were in pain being in my celebration. And when I was in my pain, other people celebrating, right? We all have to be in this together.

We all must suffer and nobody gets to relax

[01:03:38] Dean Carey: into the celebration. Yeah. Yeah. I think it comes back to balance again. I think everything we’re talking about comes back to balance and self reflection. Absolutely. You know, is this, is this good for me or bad for me? Like, is this going to be, is this effective for me or not?

Is this a high quality decision I’m making or not? You know, like if we can have that mirror up to ourself and check in. Cause we, we’re all growing, hopefully, I mean, we’re either green and growing or ripe and rotting, one or the other. Well,

[01:04:07] Bob Wheeler: you know, it’s interesting, I used to believe that everybody wanted to be the best version of themselves, turns out they don’t.

Very disappointed, so I guess it was a little bit of a demand of mine that I thought, of course you want to be a better version. No, you know, a lot of people are comfortable.

[01:04:22] Dean Carey: They are. They are. And you know why? Because a lot of people would rather be ripe than

[01:04:26] Bob Wheeler: happy. That’s right. That’s right. We love to be right.

We

[01:04:30] Dean Carey: love to be right. People give over their life to be right. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not about being right, it’s about getting the right outcome. Really. Yeah. You know.

[01:04:39] Bob Wheeler: See, I failed again. I was right! Yes, that’s exactly right. Wow. Wow.

[01:04:44] Dean Carey: I know I married the wrong person again. You see?

[01:04:47] Bob Wheeler: But I’m right. Yeah. Not happy.

Yeah. Not happy. I know. Well, Dean, you know, so here’s, this is my takeaway and you, you just named it again. It’s, it’s talking about that balance, the self reflection, curiosity. To me, curiosity is so important. Are we willing to be curious? Yeah. Am I willing to be curious about you? Am I willing to be curious about me?

Wow. That’s interesting. I sure love to do this over and over and over. I love this self sabotage or whatever it might be. So many of us are afraid to reflect and actually get the truth of the question. Yeah. Most of us don’t want to know the answer to oh, I’m so I don’t maybe I you know So curiosity I think is so important and that self reflection and you know a little bit of play on words Maybe we all don’t need a Pam in our life, but we all need a map in our life.

That’s right We all need that balance of the manager The actor and the person and I think so many of us are so busy presenting. I look really good. I present instead of how do I actually really feel? And I’m willing. Am I willing to say it or at least acknowledge it? Because I hope people might judge me.

People might this and that. And as actors, as creative artists, I think that is the biggest part of the job is to, to self reflect, to express so that other people, so we can mirror to other people, the world that sometimes we don’t want to see. And so I love that you’re out there bringing that balance in and, and helping people see, because even if they’re not on the stage acting, they’re carrying the artists within in every interaction that they do.

And. And again, like that’s where I believe we all need to be spending a little more time is, is in that place of the creative self. Yeah. And so, so I so appreciate this whole conversation and I know you’ve got another book coming out. You’ve got a lot of stuff going on. Where can people find you online and social

[01:06:43] Dean Carey: media?

Yeah. Before I get to that, a very quick one on curiosity. It’s great. I’ve been doing a lot of work with actors coaching saying, what if the character got curious? Hmm. What if the character went. Why is he nodding? Why is he sitting back in his chair? Why is she walking over there? Why did she just say that?

Like, it’s really powerful because it makes it very dynamic acting. Yeah. If the character, because the character is in fight or flight, mostly. Right. They’re going like, why am I here? How did I reach here? What’s going on around me? It’s new. So curiosity is a really big thing. It is. Huge. Absolutely. Um, and there’s no cure for it.

Curiosity. Once you’re curious, there’s no cure for it. I remember my, my parents would say on Friday night, um, we’re going up to get the fish and chips, right? Now, all of the Christmas presents have been wrapped and they’re under our beds. Do not go and look at them. And we would absolutely, the moment the car left, we would run up that hall so fast the carpet would undulate like this and we’d be shaking the boxes and pressing the paper.

So I say to my students a lot, as soon as you get curious about Shakespeare, curious about Chekhov, curious about Ophelia, curious about Hamlet, curious about whatever character it might be, curious about the scene, curious about how you got there, curious about what you’re going to do. All these. Things fall away because you’re, you have agency, you’re not going, am I looking good?

Am I playing the character right? Am I emotional enough? Am I creative enough? Am I, am I enough for you? Yeah. You, the character takes over their curiosity. It’s a very fascinating switch of context for an actor who’s trying to pump out truth and creativity, right? Make the character settle them into their world.

Let them become curious and interesting. Yeah. It keeps us in the moment. Yeah. DeanCareyCreative. com is the website. And my books will be, links will be available on there. Awesome. And after this conversation, I’m going to now finish my book, Pam, and, and take Pam to the world. Come

[01:08:51] Bob Wheeler: on, Pam, you can do it. Map it out, Pam.

Map it out, Pam. Yeah, I think you’re onto something with map. You know, poor Pam. Sorry, Pam. Yeah,

[01:09:02] Dean Carey: no, Pam to the bus. Pam’s,

[01:09:03] Bob Wheeler: yeah. Another day. Yeah. She’s she’ll be the next book.

[01:09:10] Dean Carey: Thank you so much. Oh, you’re welcome. Great conversation. Really good. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:09:18] Bob Wheeler: Hey there, money master. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn some valuable insights around your relationship with money? Our guests shared some of their financial epiphanies. You might’ve experienced one too. Don’t just sit there with that aha moment. Share it with us and the world by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform.

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