Reset Your Money Mind. Brad Barrett

Bob Wheeler (00:01.518)
Brad, thanks for joining us today.

Brad Barrett (00:04.829)
sir.

Brad Barrett (00:12.712)
Oh, Bob, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Bob Wheeler (00:14.738)
I’m excited about this conversation because I think we’re sort of in a similar mindset and we’ll probably be talking about mindset today, but I’m wondering, you know, you’ve dedicated your career to financial advising and can you just sort of tell me what inspired this career path for you?

Brad Barrett (00:29.939)
Yeah, you know, I think every advisor, anyone worth their salt probably has their origin story. For me, honestly, Bob, not to get too long winded on it, but when I was 16, like many people in finances, you got kind of some cathartic event that happens in your life. And my dad had worked for a telecommunications company for like 20 years. Couple different variations of it growing.

And then, you know, I was 16 years old and it went bankrupt. We lost everything. And it was one of those events in life where, you know, 16, I got two younger sisters.

My dad, who I revered and looked up to, we had to kind of like rearrange some stuff. It, you just felt it in the family, right? And you’re 16, you think you know the world, but I didn’t. Right. So I was young and dumb and mad. And I don’t know what I did, Bob, but I blacked out, walked into a bank, Washington mutual, God rest its soul and just said, Hey, I want a job.

And somehow they gave a punk sophomore in high school a job and that was it. And, um, honestly, man, right there, you know, God touched my heart and said, I really went into it with, you know, looking back, like two things I want to do. One, I wanted to learn about money and just say, look,

My dad’s too great of a person raising three kids. I don’t want that to happen to me. And then that’s when I touch my heart and say like, you know, this is my purpose. I want to do this for others. And I’ve been in the financial services ever since. So I’m going on 20 years now. And it’s been a wild ride and a great, great ride.

Bob Wheeler (01:48.59)
That’s awesome. You know, I think there are so many people that grow up thinking their parents know everything, have it all dialed in, and there’s an incredible safety net and nothing to worry about. And, and, and parents are great at presenting or faking it or actually doing the best they can and then circumstances take them out. Uh, but I know my parents married really young and didn’t know a whole lot and

Brad Barrett (02:02.517)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (02:17.362)
You know, for me, sort of that thing of, yeah, I don’t like being poor and I don’t like not having some kind of safety net. And if nobody else has a safety net for me, I guess I’m going to go out and make my own, you know.

Brad Barrett (02:28.295)
Yeah. And I mean, those things, I mean, a lot of times those things shape you. I’ll tell you what, I, you know, becoming a husband, becoming a father, you know, obviously, even reshapes it even further, you know, you’re like, Oh, wow,

I really don’t have it together. So they definitely have it together, you know, kind of stuff. But it also speaks to a lot of what I talk about. I know what you talk about, which is why I loved coming on here was the, like, the, like the psychology around something as

as so profound as money, like it’s kind of a taboo subject matter. Like people in this world would rather talk about, you know, sex than money. And it’s crazy to me, right? It’s like, that’s almost like, oh my gosh, let’s freely talk about that.

But when it comes to money, whoa, like don’t know, man. And yeah, I think guys like you, and I know I’ve set my career out to say, I want to, in a weird way, like debunk the taboo nature of money, because if you think about it, the core.

You know, what we live through is kind of the nurture nature thing, right? What we live through, you know, there’s really two forms of behavioral, you know, financial traits that I see, at least as an advisor. One is, you know, the God given DNA, like no different than the color of your eyes. Right.

The other one is the circumstances, right? Like you said, if you grew up, you know, with a silver spoon or something like that, and, you know, you had a bunch of money, then your money context is going to be a little bit different than the person who grew up on food stamps and everywhere in between.

And I think as an advisor, as professionals that we work with clients around the subject of money, I think we’re doing a disservice if we don’t talk to them about the qualitative items that they’re bringing in versus just the quantitative.

And, you know, that’s something we strive to do here at our firm at One Capital Management. And we feel like we’ve been successful at it. And we love sharing that message and just reminding people that like you’re not alone.

You know, everyone struggles with money, whether they have it or they don’t. You heard the saying, right? You know, more money, more problems. It’s real. You and I see it as advisors. Um, so it’s just kind of almost debunking the myth that money can fill some void or, or solve some problem and it just tends to create more problems. So planning for us, managing your risk and your growth and how you own it. Um, it matters to us.

Bob Wheeler (04:15.776)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (04:33.63)
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m wondering if those are however, I’m wondering if this has ever happened for you, because I’ve talked to a few advisors, I work with a lot of advisors, because if I’m not, I’m not helping my client, like, I’ve got to be letting them know, hey, I’ve got $300,000 worth of capital loss carry forward or whatever it might be, I’ve got to be, it got to work together.

But there have been a few times where I’m talking to an advisor, and with the client’s permission, and I’ll say, oh, man, you know, I can’t believe the client, da did this.

Brad Barrett (04:50.411)
Yeah, it’s a comprehensive team you’re building for a client. Yep.

Bob Wheeler (05:03.63)
And the advisor’s like, what are you talking about? Uh, when I talked to them, we’re on goal for everything. And they told me where they’re doing this and that. But the thing is when I do the taxes, I actually see, uh, certain things that they did with their money that the advisor just took their word on.

And so I’m wondering if you’ve ever had that where they want to give you a good game, they talk a good game, but secretly, you know, I’m sort of ashamed. I can’t tell Brad what I did. Um.

Brad Barrett (05:06.921)
the

Bob Wheeler (05:33.23)
because he can’t get mad.

Brad Barrett (05:33.735)
Yeah, I think, you know, it’d be ill advised for me to say I haven’t seen that in 19, 20 years of being an advisor. I do think though, as you become more experienced, like you have, like I feel like I’ve kind of grown in your career, you’re able to almost see through that to help them with it. Say, oh, let’s stop for a second. You don’t have to put up a front with me. Like I’m here to help you. Like, but it’s also one of those things too. You talk to clients, like you gotta remember.

It’s weird, I think it’s like a financial undressing. You know, it’s like you go to a doctor and it’s already an uncomfortable situation. It’s the same thing here. And weirdly, I think people have a harder time showing you their money than anything else.

It’s kind of interesting, right? So there is definitely aspects that we as humans all bring into advisory relationships like ours, whether that’s pride, humility, embarrassment, guilt, shame, sadness over a loss of something or money or a…

the whole hindsight theory, right? We were just like, oh, well, if I had invested in Apple 20 years ago, I’m like, yeah, well, I mean, we can all play that game, right? You know, so, or the whole, you know, notion, like I learned in economics when I was studying it, right? The whole $1 loss will always be more profound for a client than the $10 gain. And you think about that, it’s crazy.

Like how many times you have talked to a client, like, you know, back 10 years ago, I had this investment in the loss and I’m like, do you not see the other 10% of gains that have gone on since then? But they’re like, you know,

Bob Wheeler (06:32.95)
Right. Exactly.

Brad Barrett (06:56.479)
So it’s a, you know, we definitely have seen those things come in and I’ll notice with the integration team, like CPA, estate planning attorney, insurance professional, legal team, lawyers, business managers with clients that there’s definitely different relationships I think the client will take with each one of them,

depending on the role. Like take our world, right? From an investment manager and a financial advisor, let’s say, and a CPA. It’s kind of like in your world, right? It’s like a balance sheet versus a P&L.

different numbers, different relationships to it, right? So I think there’s a connection point there where it’s like, you know, you have a different feel with somebody around what they’re doing for the taxes. Cause they’re kind of coming to you like, okay, man, what do I owe? And it’s not a fun conversation or, you know,

and it’s weird too, right? Okay, what am I receiving back? And you look like a savior and it’s like, well, really it’s just getting back the money you sent Uncle Sam on a free loan basically, right?

Bob Wheeler (07:39.425)
Right.

Bob Wheeler (07:49.442)
Right, sometimes we look amazing even though we did nothing.

Brad Barrett (07:52.399)
Yeah, so it’s our whole world is about context, right? You know, and, and I think the same thing for us, like, you know, sometimes we I get the client who doesn’t really who feels almost sheepish to call me and say, Hey, I need 10 grand or, you know, some money. I’m like, great. Well, my job is to get it out to you

efficiently and effectively. And you kind of hear on the tone on a call or a meeting where they kind of feel like they’re coming to Big Brother for it. I’m like, No, no, this is your money. Like, I always take a stance, like, just to be clear, I’m here to steward the capital.

for you based on your goals. End of the day though, you’re in the driver’s seat. So yeah, there’s definitely, we definitely have seen that.

Bob Wheeler (08:28.342)
Yeah, well, you know, it’s funny you’re talking about the undressing financially. And I think. You know, in some households, hey mom, what do you make? Don’t you ever like there’s you never talk about money and then other people talk about it openly or there’s so many secrets or we hear, well, the neighbors boy,

don’t they think they’re high and mighty getting that fancy new car. Right. So we start picking up or even in school.

Brad Barrett (08:38.6)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (08:54.338)
Oh, I’ve got the hand me down. Somebody else has the designer, uh, polo or whatever it might be. And so we start learning really early that money matters. Um, or that it’s a topic that don’t talk about it, but you want to have it. If you, if you can.

Brad Barrett (09:13.011)
You know, I, you hit on something I say all the time, and I think this is good for anyone watching or listening here, like ask yourself honestly, maybe since the age of seven or eight, and I’m gonna use that as an example, because my son who turns eight here in a couple months, just recently is like, asks me daily,

not like specifically about money, but he’s under, he’s all of a sudden keen to the topic of money, and I’m like, where’d that come from, right? So from the age of seven or eight, how many days in your life have you gone where you haven’t peripherally or directly thought about money?

especially if you’ve been 18 and you’re an adult now, right? Past that, I mean, everything from the coffee you bought this morning, you’re thinking about it. And everywhere around us with social media and marketing and everything just talks about all these budgeting hacks and you know, I’m like,

I’m sorry, not buying your Starbucks in the morning is not gonna necessarily get you to buying your first home. I’m sorry. Yes, it will help, but you know, it might be a drop in the bucket. Like there’s bigger shifts you gotta make, right? Anyway, that’s a whole other, you know, rabbit hole we can go down.

Bob Wheeler (10:08.206)
But yeah, but again, even the marketing, there was an ad for a while, you know, if you’re using money and not your credit card, you’re holding up the line, right? Don’t be that guy. And so we just, there’s, and even with my clients,

I have a lot of clients, a lot of money. Let’s talk estate planning. Oh, no. If we start talking about my money when I die, my kids are going to wait for me to die. They’re going to, now all they’re going to think about is how much money I’m giving them. We’re not…

Brad Barrett (10:17.739)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (10:38.337)
That’s off the table.

Brad Barrett (10:40.335)
They’re thinking Uncle Vinny is going to show up to the house with a baseball bat in the back or something. It’s like, what? No. Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (10:44.17)
Yeah, it’s, yeah, we can talk about it. It’s going to be okay. So it’s just, it’s really interesting. Um, but I, let me ask you this because on your show, make your money matter. Um, you, you know, you’re aiming to, uh, change how people think. What would be the biggest shift of mindset that you try to inspire your listeners to make that adjustment?

Brad Barrett (10:51.573)
It is.

Brad Barrett (11:05.183)
You know, I think on our show, you know, we have a few episodes a week that we come out and I’ve, it was born off of my direct conversations I’ve had for nearly two decades with clients. So it was all just everything you would see on our show, like yours, you’re coming from a place of experience.

Like, so all the topics, I even had one recently on how to talk to your kids about money, which is exactly what you’re talking about, right? All these things that come up weekly during reviews. And so when I’m out there designing how you think about it, it really comes to the notion of like,

being careful of getting too down the line of just thinking growth, and the whole crab mentality of stepping over people. It’s really kind of like the one saying, right? The one place you can stay in this world for free is your lane. And so it’s like, just focus on you. You know, don’t look over the fence, see what other person has.

Like you mentioned the guy who, you know, run around the New Jordans at school and you’re, you know, in primary school or something like that. Like, yeah, that’s good for him, right? Figure out how you, if that’s a goal of yours, then we wanna rethink.

and reshape your context of money. And that’s a word I use all the time. So probably most of my listeners and my clients are probably like rolling their eyes if they’re even listening to this. Like if I say the word context one more time, my wife’s probably gonna put me in the grave. But I’m telling you, man, it’s one of the things when I talk about reshaping the mindset around money,

Bob, I’m really focusing on context. And like in investment management world, you know how many times people will come with a 20 or 30 year data fact set on let’s say rate of returns and compare that to a one year portfolio management?

work. I mean, it’s talk about apples to oranges. And so I think we’re constantly trying to get into the mindset and reframe the context of time in particular, you know, the context of their world, not what’s going on with their neighbors or their family members.

So a lot of it, a lot of it’s up here, it’s in the mind, like a lot of our struggles in life in general, but with money is a mindset, it really is. And so I try to reframe how they’re how they’re personally seeing their own money, and then how we want to grow it.

and save it.

Bob Wheeler (13:03.454)
Yeah, and you know, the thing, just going to just touch back on the kids for a minute. It’s a lot of work, right? It’s a lot of work to have conscious, intentional conversations, right? We could shame just because I said so, or that’s stupid, or you’re greedy instead of. So here’s the reality. Money doesn’t grow on trees, whatever you want to say, right? But to be able to sit there and say, well, you can have the bike, but then you’re not going to get.

Brad Barrett (13:14.262)
It is.

Bob Wheeler (13:31.006)
ice cream or a snack after school for the next six months or like explaining trade-offs or taking a piggy bank and making the kid have to fork out some of their money out of the piggy bank and experience the loss Right, but then experience the purchase instead of I’m gonna tell Santa Claus, right or whatever it might be and so

Brad Barrett (13:51.711)
You’re getting, you’re getting cold this year. And it’s like, well, wait a minute. But you know what, you know, it’s funny you say that Bob, because one of the things that we shifted now that my son’s kind of talking about it is,

I brought in the word in my house of earn versus receive. I think for an out there who’s in that struggle or in that season of life with kids, it’s also hard to figure out when the right time is to talk to your kid about or bring it up. For me, I mean, I don’t know there’s a right answer or an age, I think for me with my eight year old or we’re gonna be eight year old, he just bringing it up around how much did that cost?

Bob Wheeler (14:03.428)
Mm. Yeah.

Brad Barrett (14:19.455)
things like that. So he’s obviously the concepts there. So obviously the seed is planted. So now I want to be able to steward that and grow that healthy. And one concept was instead of how much did it cost or can I, can I get that based on certain reward system or it’s how do we earn that? And I don’t know, that’s my own thing in my household. Like work ethic is instilled whether there’s a monetary value of receivership or, or some other validation.

You know, I think the word earn versus receive or been given has a lot to do with how they’re going to go into adult life around the concept of money.

Bob Wheeler (14:54.07)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you talk about money, it doesn’t mean that all of a sudden now we’re all greedy and that we’re singularly focused. The money conversation comes up, like you said, 500 times a day. Do I bring my lunch? Do I buy my lunch? Do I get the extra dessert? Do I try to…

Brad Barrett (15:00.01)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (15:12.179)
There was a study, you know, that’s funny you say it, there was a study I just read, and I don’t have the ability to quote it, but I read it and it was about, there is on average 60,000 thoughts that go through our brain on a daily basis. Think about that. Now, right? I kind of, and that was even, okay, let’s say they’re crazy high and let’s even take half of it. Still 30,000, you know what I mean?

But I was thinking about like, how many of those thoughts are around money? Like you just said, like we think about it constantly.

Bob Wheeler (15:24.918)
Yeah, I believe it.

Brad Barrett (15:38.691)
It’s unbelievable. And we tend to, if we do that in our mental space, and a lot of psychologists will talk about this when you talk about it. If you do that too much, you tend to live in tomorrow’s anxiety without dealing with today’s problems.

You know what I mean? And so it’s like this frame of reference in your mind where you’re caught up in this state of complete angst at all times because you’re so focused on the growth aspect when you’re not being as grateful as maybe you should be about, okay, well, wait a minute, I woke up this morning. Let’s just start there, you know?

Bob Wheeler (16:05.578)
Right. Now.

Brad Barrett (16:06.73)
And so I think that frames how we look at things like money too.

Bob Wheeler (16:10.102)
Absolutely. And you know, I’ve also read that of those thoughts that we’re thinking, the 30, the 60,000, about 80% are negative. Right. And so, um, wow, Billy has a new car instead of, hey, Billy’s got a new car. Maybe I can ride in it. Right. We’re often going straight to the negative. Well, they got to raise. Like for me.

Brad Barrett (16:19.488)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (16:28.651)
Yeah.

Or the judging and the, yeah, all that. It’s like, wait, why? Why, you know? Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (16:36.106)
I’ve really cultivated a mindset when people around me, because I have a lot of entertainment friends. So when somebody gets a TV show or something really good happens, or they got the promotion or their investment paid off, I get excited because I tell people, I’m around people that are successful, right?

And that just means more is gonna come my way. I don’t wanna be around people that are constantly falling off the cliff and everything’s just a doomsday. I want people around me. And so I get excited when other people are succeeding.

Brad Barrett (16:51.765)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (17:05.398)
Cause that means I’m around success. Like that’s the way I spin it.

Brad Barrett (17:09.907)
Yeah, and you know, you don’t want to, you want to be careful of your friend group, especially as you’re growing in your career or whatever it is you’re doing, whatever purpose you have in your life, right? And you want to be around those people that are your cheerleaders, but you don’t want to be around the people that are your cheerleaders until you out succeed them, right?

Because then it becomes a negative relationship and it doesn’t really work. And look, end of the day, right or wrong, when you talk about the concept of money, you’re not necessarily, it’s really more about what you’ve been stewarding, what you’ve been given. Like if we, if we, if we come at it from that lens,

Bob Wheeler (17:24.833)
Right.

Brad Barrett (17:40.391)
you immediately bring the stigma off of you’re greedy, you’re selfish, things like that. It’s like, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I’ve been able to build a practice that I’m able to help people and in return you receive an economic reward. This is true of any job out there, right? And so if you bring it from a frame of reference, okay, the real question is not how much you’re making, like everyone wants to focus on, okay, it’s what are you doing with it? Like that’s where my…

whole philosophy gets born on with our clients is it also brings this thing off of being so solely focused on a rate of return, which is one aspect of the what are you doing with it? But are you are you using it to help your children are using it help to your neighborhood, your community? I mean, there’s so many that can go so many different ways, right?

And so I just think if you think about it that way, instead of the immediate reaction of like, hey, I want to judge somebody for making 100 grand a year or whatever it is, right? With Well, you know what, I’d rather if I’m going to be judgy at all, I’d rather say, what are they doing with?

I mean, are they going into debt and causing a whole angst and then bring that into the workplace, into your family group, or are they minding their own cash flow management and living within their means and all the things that helps create a more happy person? I mean, there is a direct correlation,

I will say this, and I’m not a psychologist or a doctor, I don’t have any data on this, but I’m coming from anecdotal experience. There is a heavy correlation I have with my clients for those that are living within their means first, have…

by and large more joy, more happiness. So the whole thing of money can’t buy happiness, I tend to agree to an extent of it, well, it’s not how I can buy it, it’s how you use it. And I’ve just seen it. There’s the stress isn’t there, you know? It’s kind of funny, right? It’s the concept of, I say this a lot to my clients, like the things in life are more stressful and harder when it should you versus could you.

Think about that, right? Like when you were broke, we’ve all been there one time. Like I, you know, whatever, like if a buddy says, hey, let’s go to dinner, you’re like, no, I can’t, I can’t afford it, right? I’m gonna eat top ramen like I did yesterday and the week before, you know what I mean? It’s an easy answer,

Bob, right? We know this, it’s just like, it’s no stress, no, it’s done. Now all of a sudden you got a few coins in your pocket and the should you comes in. Like I could, I did just go to the grocery store and buy groceries, maybe I should get home. But that sounds fun, he’s going with so-and-so, it’s only 30 bucks, you know what I mean?

Bob Wheeler (19:43.942)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (20:02.023)
Immediately you get into this money context of now it’s stressful. So if you see that and the lens becomes there, it’s, that’s where the whole money, more money, more problems come from. It’s not like all of a sudden you got Jay Z money or something like that. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about more money than you had yesterday, literally.

And those are when the emotions come in. And so one of the things I think good advisors like yourself on the, on the tax side and just the business management side, and then on our side and the investments and the planning side is to just help them see that. Like.

Bob Wheeler (20:18.421)
Right. Yeah.

Brad Barrett (20:32.459)
Just like I said, reframe, rethink it before you get into this whole, let’s go down this process and just do what everyone else is doing and grow, and talk about performance numbers and this, that, and the other. That’s a part of it, yes. But if you start with the reframing, I think it has a big benefit to it.

Bob Wheeler (20:48.554)
Yeah, I want to go back to a couple of points. We’re going to take a minute to test your nerve. So I want to come back to something, but we’re going to take a moment to test your nerve. Test your nerve is brought to you by themoneynerve.com.

And to the listeners out there, I dare you to challenge and confront your finances. Sign up now and take the testyournerve.com free quiz and find out about your relationship with money. All right, here we go. What’s the worst financial advice you heard as a rookie?

Brad Barrett (21:17.75)
The worst financial advice I heard as a rookie is buy the car to impress the clients.

Bob Wheeler (21:25.862)
I’ve heard that a lot. It’s California. What’s the most important trade of a financial advisor in a couple of words? Yeah, awesome. If you could master one other skill besides finances, what would it be?

Brad Barrett (21:34.643)
Empathy. One word.

Brad Barrett (21:42.923)
Singing. I’ve always wanted to sing, Bob. Like I am so, when I go to church on Sundays and I see the worships, I’m like, God, why couldn’t I have that? I want that. Singing. Bet you didn’t expect that answer. I am tone deaf, so I’m a finance geek. I do not sing. So yeah. Nope, nope.

Bob Wheeler (21:44.578)
Ha ha ha!

Bob Wheeler (21:53.649)
The voice, the voice is calling you, the voice is calling you.

Bob Wheeler (22:00.254)
You do not sing, not even in the shower. All right. If you had a billboard, what would it say?

Brad Barrett (22:08.203)
Who? If I had a billboard, what would it say?

Oh man.

Brad Barrett (22:19.051)
Wow.

You stumped me on that one. I have no idea what I would say on that. That’s… You got me there. My nerve is not tested on a billboard. You got me there. I’m not sure.

Bob Wheeler (22:24.11)
that all right what well what will do another one okay that’s all right that’s all right in your opinion what money lessons are universal regardless of how much money someone has the bank

Brad Barrett (22:38.431)
Time, the money lesson of time, I think, is the universal way to look at money, whether you got a billion dollars or one dollar.

Bob Wheeler (22:46.91)
Yeah, absolutely. And if you could reinvent the landscape of financial advising, what would be the ideal scenario?

Brad Barrett (22:57.063)
I think that I, if I could reinvent the whole landscape, I think disclosures and things that are out there that we know about that we do here at our firm, I know, but I think a lot of people don’t. I would like that to be uncovered a little bit. There’s variations to that answer, but that’s, I mean, there’s more to that answer, but that’s what I would say.

Bob Wheeler (23:17.194)
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think sometimes you find some advisors, especially newer ones, they’re maybe just by an annuity, right? Instead of maybe, or

Brad Barrett (23:29.723)
Yeah, I think because I mean, we live, the reason why I say that is too, is because we live in a subjective world kind of, right? Well, in general, we do. And in this world, it’s hard, like taking annuity, for example, like it, they’re fine products, but are, you know, I have an issue with them being sold as like the end all be all like it’s going to solve your world’s problem.

That’s typically how they’re sold. So yeah, I think, I think somehow being able to reframe the whole subjective nature through disclosure and through, you know, somehow qualifying it in a more.

efficient manner I think would be really great for everybody who would look to you as a financial professional.

Bob Wheeler (24:04.042)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, so I want to go back to a couple of things. Um, uh, the first thing I want to go back to talking about mindset and talking about shoulda, coulda, I’ve got a few more dollars and, uh, do I go out to dinner with my friend? I, I have this, I don’t, uh, I have a belief that a lot of people are comfortable with the amount of money they have. So if I’m comfortable with not being overdrawn,

or if I’m comfortable with 500 or I’m comfortable with 10,000, when I get a windfall, when that money goes way up, I’m getting uncomfortable. Let me get back to my $5,000 balance. Let me spend, spend. And I’m wondering what you think about that. If that makes sense or that’s not your experience.

I just, a lot of times when a client will tell me, I’ve just inherited a hundred thousand bucks and I’ll say, they go, what do I do? I say, you leave it in the bank for 30 days and just look at it. And they’re like, what?

I’m like, yeah, just sit with it.

Brad Barrett (25:00.679)
Yeah. Well, it’s interesting. That’s, that’s, that’s interesting. So, I mean, the way I would kind of look at that is like, you know, one thing I’ve always shared is like money, you know, the whole money changes a person thing, right? And, and, and to your point, if you’re comfortable at 5,000 and you’re very valid in who you are,

like it’s another whole behavioral finance, you know, mental psycho psychological trait. Money doesn’t really change you just illumine in my mind, it illuminated to you already are.

Bob Wheeler (25:12.718)
Mm-hmm.

Brad Barrett (25:28.031)
So if you’re a sad person, more money is not gonna fix that. I hate to break it to you, right? If you’re a giver, likely you’re gonna be more of a giver. If you’re a spender, to your example, you’re gonna likely be more of a spender. So it’s like the whole Diderot effect, right? Where he had moved into a house, his couch didn’t work, so he just kept expanding, expanding. We all do this, by the way. You make a little bit more money and all of a sudden you spend it, a little bit more money. It’s the burning the hole in your pocket theory. So I agree with you. I mean, I think…

Bob Wheeler (25:28.046)
Absolutely.

Bob Wheeler (25:53.102)
Absolutely.

Brad Barrett (25:55.751)
I think we are all comfortable to an estate until you move the goalpost. Like any goals or reward system in our life since we were kids, it’s like, okay, you set a goal, you achieve it, and then you got to kind of move the goalpost, right? So I think, you know,

if you had in your example, $5,000 in the bank and then all of a sudden you had an inheritance, I would look back to, I guess I’m trying to add some color to that is who was the person originally with the 5,000? Like were they a spender? Were they a giver?

you know, emotionally, were they joyous person, naturally, were they kind of more of a sad, whatever, it’s just gonna illuminate who that person already is, and then you’re gonna, in my experience, you’re gonna see that play out, right? So in your example, if they’re gonna spend it or get nervous,

I think it’s an interesting case study, where I say, okay, for every client, if you inherited money, the first thing I would say, you have to hold it for 90 days. Like to your point, I would go further than 30, I’d say 90 days, like, and just see how they squirm.

Bob Wheeler (26:34.763)
Yeah, absolutely.

Bob Wheeler (26:45.386)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad Barrett (26:51.219)
Now, obviously you have no control of that and squirm is a bad way to say it, but you’re really trying to test their angst, right? And it kind of forces them to re-examine themselves. Like, wait a minute, have you asked yourself why you feel so energetic about going and spending it, like crazy to sit on it? You see what I’m saying? Like it’d be interesting to figure out who they really are.

Bob Wheeler (27:15.854)
Well, you know, it’s interesting. I have a client in their 80s. They’ve got about two million. Pretty liquid money and I actually said you must go and spend $20,000 on a remodel on your house because they’re like, well, what if, what if like you got plenty of money’s going to last and they’re so frugal that I’ve literally said, if you don’t come back with receipts, okay, okay. Just because they’re so afraid to actually enjoy their life.

because they’ve accumulated and I get the hard work that went into it, but again, mindset context and all that.

Brad Barrett (27:51.947)
Well, and I think too, you’re speaking about generations as well. There’s a big second. Remember we’re only one generation away from the great depression.

So we’re, and I have these clients too in their seventies, eighties, and even nineties, they’re very different in their money context than a client I have in their forties. And I really do feel like as an advisors, we have to take, that’s why we use that word empathy of just remembering where they were coming from.

You know, and we do want to do the good advice and good stewardship, I totally agree with you on say, look, you do need to do remodel, you’re gonna get some tax benefits from it, you do have plenty of money to fall back on so on and so forth, but that’s like speaking Spanish to somebody who doesn’t speak Spanish, right?

It’s like, you see, right? So it’s kind of like, how do we, and you can do that through trust, obviously she has trust in you, and just that’s how we do it as advisors, but I think coming at it from a lens of realizing that they were raised likely an 80 year old person.

look at the context of AIDS. They were raised in an era of, we were still fighting wars. We were still kind of learning ourselves as a country. There’s just a lot of stuff going on in the mid 1900s that I t

hink is important to bring in context, especially when it comes to money. Mutual funds weren’t even around until the 70s, credit cards weren’t even around. You only paid for things in that generation in what you had in the bank. There was no credit. So…

Bob Wheeler (29:02.562)
Right?

Bob Wheeler (29:09.322)
Yeah, probably the biggest disservice in some ways. I mean, right, and then there’s benefits too, so.

Brad Barrett (29:13.955)
Yeah, I mean, it’s like anything. Yeah, it’s like technology, right? I mean, you can make all the cases in the world how beneficial it is, but also all the stress and angst it’s caused as well in this world. So yeah, it’s, but anything good comes from bad and you just gotta kind of filter it.

Bob Wheeler (29:28.534)
Yeah, absolutely. The other thing, and I’ll just touch on it real quick. I’m just curious your thoughts on this. You know, I have, so I have a lot of artists and a lot of entertainment, creative folks, and there’s a lot of, I’m not deserving, you know, cause I’m following my passion.

I’m not obsessed with money. Um, but I run into a lot of people and I’ll say, what do you think of rich people? Rich people are greedy. People are this. People are that. Do you want to be rich? Yeah. Right. And so like there’s a, there’s a, um, there’s a disconnect.

Like we want to have more money, but we have a judgment about what those people are like. And so then are we keeping ourselves from getting there? So don’t we don’t become that, right? We become, uh, different people with money, which right. Exactly. And I

definitely agree that money amplifies who you already are. Um, and so having more money or becoming rich to me is just more opportunity to be able to help others in need or to be able to give people a path forward that might not have had it otherwise.

Brad Barrett (30:08.255)
A hypocrite. Yeah.

Brad Barrett (30:25.571)
Yeah, it doesn’t buy happiness necessarily, but it gives you options. That’s what I was saying. My clients who, I mean, there’s an old saying, right? You like, it’s not about the zeros in your bank accounts. Some people look at that. Some people look at having zero regrets and neither one is a judging aspect. If someone wanted to grow their wealth, to take care of multi-generational wealth, great, good for them.

You should cheer them on. If someone wanted to spend and live for today, because different contexts that they have now, I don’t believe it should go into debt and cause other issues there. But if they want to spend what they have and

then you know what, that’s their prerogative, you know? And we live in a free country still, so let’s, you know, let that be. And yeah, I tend to agree with you. I think there is some, there’s sometimes some hypocrisy of some things. You know, it’s always hard, right? It’s like an 18, 19 year old freshman, sophomore in college talking about how they’re gonna change the world. And we all want that, we’ve all been there, right? Then they work their first job, get their paycheck, and then I’m sorry, wait, the government’s taking what?

So you gotta kinda let them live their life and live through it and see the stages of growth that they go in, because the reality, if you re-examine yourself, you were likely in those stages as well. So I agree with you. There’s some hypocrisy there, but I think it’s just a, judgment’s a harsh word, but it’s an analysis of what someone has that you don’t, and it can either create you to be a negative person or it can motivate you, and it’s really your choice.

Bob Wheeler (31:48.47)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I’m going to pivot a little bit. I’m going to ask you this because I’m curious your take on this. How is the rise of passive income challenged traditional assumptions about active money management? Like have you seen a difference and as an advisor, how do you navigate that?

Brad Barrett (32:07.315)
Yeah, I think in the past five or 10 years in particular, I’ve noticed, we were talking about this pre, in our pre-production call too, like, or in a discussion is I think this notion of everybody, this whole side hustle, passive income, by the way, we’ve always been preaching that of having multiple revenue channels.

Typically it was done back in the day where, okay, do you have a pension? Do you have a social security? Like those are revenue channels that’ll pay for you that you were funding along the way. And then all of a sudden it shifted to this whole real estate is like the, when someone says passive income,

right or wrong, they immediately attach that to real estate. And I’m not, again, right or not, not right or wrong, no shade there. But what I kind of bring back, say, well, wait a minute, aren’t dividends passive income? You know, aren’t, I mean, aren’t yields from fixed income on coupons and bonds passive income? So it really, you know, it really comes down to how we switch, how we refrain that for clients is just, you know, diversifying their desires and their needs. I don’t think.

Bob Wheeler (32:42.159)
Right.

Brad Barrett (33:05.023)
someone coming out there right away, anecdotally speaking from my experience, someone saying, okay, I’m gonna work five different side hustles and that’s how I’m gonna build my wealth. If you look at a lot of strategies out there from people who’ve actually made it, they’ve focused their time, energy, and money, and resources on one area, and then when that cup over fills, that’s when they start investing in things of passive income in other areas.

So I think again, reframing your thought process there and making sure that TikTok influencer isn’t the one giving you your financial advice, let’s just put it that way.

Bob Wheeler (33:34.75)
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to something you said earlier about staying in your own lane, um, if you’re not, like, I’ve done real estate, not my great, I don’t enjoy it. I was like, I’m…

Brad Barrett (33:44.267)
Same, me. You know why I don’t enjoy it? Yeah, it’s a tangible asset. I’ve always told people, you would think differently of the real estate market if it traded every day like the stock market does. Think about that, right? You can still worry about the stock market.

We get worried and fear about things that we don’t understand, right? The mind is built that way. We don’t like what we don’t understand. It’s that simple. So you typically grew up in a house, right? You maybe have…

Bob Wheeler (33:58.012)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (34:03.018)
Right. That’s right.

Brad Barrett (34:09.663)
had a place you rented, you’re thinking about, okay, I’m the renter, I wanna be the landlord one day. So you have this concept of real estate and land, but it’s so funny to me because it’s like, it’s a tangible asset, which basically means you can’t just knock on the door and say, hey, I need grocery money today, so it’s not liquid, right?

If you are the landlord, you gotta deal with all the uncertainty of the things breaking down and the person you’re the tenant. There’s just so many, and look, it is for certain people, but I’m with you, Bob. I have a home.

Bob Wheeler (34:25.13)
Right.

Bob Wheeler (34:35.751)
certain people.

Brad Barrett (34:38.423)
I’m blessed to have that, but I do not reinvest. I mean, diversify myself in real estate because it’s just not my asset class. It’s not my cup of tea, as they say.

Bob Wheeler (34:47.714)
No, exactly. Put it in a REIT. But it’s, yeah, not real estate.

Brad Barrett (34:49.979)
Yeah, yeah. You want to have the exposure to that asset class, but do you necessarily need to own it brick and mortar? I don’t know. It’s for every it’s for each of us to go through.

Bob Wheeler (34:58.826)
Yeah, absolutely. And so I just for people out there, yeah, passive income is great, but find something you’re comfortable with that doesn’t keep you awake at night so that you can sleep soundly instead of going, is my crypto up? Is my like whatever it is, you know, find your comfort.

Brad Barrett (35:06.632)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (35:11.583)
Yeah. And remember, and good, yeah, well said, but passive income and the investment that it comes from are very different. Again, like your world, it’s like a profits and loss statement and a balance sheet. It’s, it’s, you gotta think about that, right? Especially if you’re going to go with use leverage, right?

If you’re going to use leverage, you can’t just trade that thing right then and there. You got to wait 30, 60, 90 days, especially in this market with rising interest rates, that house may not sell right away. You got to be ready for that, you know?

Um, you gotta be well capitalized for that. Um, anyways, there’s just a lot of, there’s just a lot of thought that should go into that before. You know, many times to your question, which is a good one, Bob, people coming in, you know, I’m thinking about buying a second property. You know, how many times

I’ve heard that in the past five years? Like, and I have an internally, and I don’t mean to say this, but like, I’m kind of like, oh gosh, here we go again. And when we walk through the economics of it, I’m like, let’s, let’s talk through it. That’s remember empathy has to start with an advisor. You can’t, you can’t judge out of the gate. We have to be non-judgmental.

Bob Wheeler (35:54.44)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (36:09.091)
And I really feel like I am, even though I’m kind of sitting there going like, why? And I know why it wasn’t his necessarily idea. It was his colleagues, his center of influence around him. It was marketing. It was social media.

You and I both know this in the past five, 10 years, that noise has been more loud than any other time period. And I’m not saying real estate is a bad investment nor you, but it’s, it just needs to be looked at.

Bob Wheeler (36:27.85)
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler (36:31.98)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (36:34.143)
before you just knee-jerk say, oh yeah, the only way to make success in this world, to have passive income, the only way to do it is to have real estate. And I’m here to say that is not the only.

Bob Wheeler (36:42.798)
There are lots of ways, many paths forward, many paths. So Brad, we are at the M&M moment, the sweet spot, money and motivation. I’m wondering if you could share a practical tip or a piece of wealth wisdom with our listeners.

Brad Barrett (36:44.347)
Lots of ways.

Brad Barrett (36:55.719)
You know, I’m going to go with something we kind of touched on today. And I’ll just say this. I think time is the number one commodity that you can invest in. And I don’t have many tricks in my bag. My eight year old thinks I’m the most boring human being in the planet earth.

But I told him this one thing. I said, okay, you’re a little bit, you’ve kind of fascinated with money. Imagine someone right now who’s 95 years old said I’ll trade places with you permanently and I’ll give you a billion dollars. Ask yourself, would you do it? Likely the answer is no.

And because you think about it, we immediately remove the money context from it. Because if you’re eight years old in my son case or you’re 50 years old listening, you’re going to lose 45 years of your life. So believe it or not, friends, time is your most valuable commodity. Just keep that in mind from when you, when you bring that context into money. Cause really when you’re investing, when you’re growing your wealth, what you’re really doing is buying yourself time. Just remember that.

Bob Wheeler (37:48.578)
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that. And you know, it’s, and I’ve wanted to say it a few times, but I know that your wife might then come and put me in my grave. But context, right? A lot of this stuff is context, whether it’s passive income, what’s the context? Is real estate right? Is it not? Am I going to spend the money or not? And so I think the thing that we’ve talked about today, and it also is something we didn’t talk about, but I think it,

Brad Barrett (38:00.638)
Yeah, it is.

Bob Wheeler (38:18.134)
evolves naturally when you’re talking about context, when you’re talking about empathy is trust. When you’re working with a financial advisor, it’s got to be somebody that you trust or and respect, but trust because money is really private. And again, we’ll talk politics and sex and religion, even though we don’t want to, but we’d rather do that than talk about money. And so when people can find somebody where there’s a safe place to talk shop,

Brad Barrett (38:35.082)
It is.

Brad Barrett (38:39.263)
Yeah. Yup.

Bob Wheeler (38:47.842)
talk about their money, talk about their money fears, talk about their money desires without judgment and shame and just being able to have that space, I think is such an important thing. And I can hear in the way you talk and what you share, the languaging is that it’s, you know, it isn’t just about let’s make you a bunch of money and let’s make me a bunch of commissions. It’s about how are we gonna show up in life and how can I help you get there?

Brad Barrett (39:11.829)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (39:16.135)
It is. And you’re right. I think if anyone’s out there, trust is earned. And as Reagan said, right, trust, but verify. So it’s not that you just give blindly. You want to be able to verify as well, seek counsel, find that person. But there’s three things you should look for. Credentials, someone who actually cares about bettering themselves for you, by the way, be mindful.

The person who has alphabet soup behind their name as well, cause maybe they’re spending too much time in the books and in the real world. Side point. You want to find experience, someone who’s been down that route before. And I think you really want to look for someone who’s independent.

I think that does matter because end of the day, they have no big brother, no bosses, and they’re really trying to be there, sit kneecap to kneecap with you and help you. So I think those are three keys to look for when it comes to an advisor. And yeah, trust is earned. So you gotta make sure that you find that relationship.

And then ultimately, your gut tells you a lot. If you like the person, then you can kind of move forward with that. If you’re like, oh, that person, you know what I mean? Then that tells you something and that’s okay. You know, and you gotta kind of go with your gut sometimes.

Bob Wheeler (40:11.918)
Absolutely. Trust the gut. Lots of times. Trust the gut. Trust the gut. Brad, where can people find you online and social media?

Brad Barrett (40:14.803)
Yeah. Yep.

Brad Barrett (40:19.763)
Yeah, so our firm, One Capital Management, you can find us at our website at onecapital.com. One of the better ways to find us as well is through our YouTube channel, which is Make Your Money Matter with Brad Barrett. You can download, subscribe, we have weekly episodes there. And you can follow us at Make Your Money Matter on Facebook and Instagram, as well as LinkedIn.

Bob Wheeler (40:42.282)
Awesome. Well, we’ll put all that in the show notes, but I always love to just hear it spoken out loud. So Brad, I so appreciate you taking the time. I love that you’re out there working on people’s money mindsets because for me, i

t’s all about mindset and learning to pivot. We can have it all. We’re allowed to have all the things we want and we just have to be intentional and conscious about it. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Brad Barrett (40:46.517)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (40:58.015)
Yeah.

Brad Barrett (41:08.235)
Thank you for having me on, I appreciate it.