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Episode 199

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Episode Description

At work, we may feel the pressure to create an identity for ourselves that is different from who we really are. We want to be seen as successful, interesting, and put-together individuals. And if you’re not white, you may need to create an identity that is digestible and comfortable for the predominate culture. You may feel pressured to hold back to portray a persona that isn’t entirely authentic. It can be incredibly frustrating because it feels like being stuck in a constant cycle of pretending to be someone you’re not. What if there were a way to be successful and still be true to one’s self? 

 

 In this episode,  Dr. Daryl L. Jones and Charles Mitchell Esq., hosts of The Conscious Vibe Podcast, shed some light on how they broke free from the pressures of corporate America to become entrepreneurs with the view to encourage individuals who don’t see themselves pursuing a traditional path to create their own opportunities. 

 

I invite you to listen to this episode and include The Conscious Vibe Podcast on your list of must-listen-to podcasts as Dr D.J. (as I like to call him) and Charles Mitchell explore fascinating conscious conversations around mindset, race, politics, business, and culture.

 

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Episode Transcription

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[00:00:00] Bob Wheeler: Welcome to another episode of money you should ask where everyone has something they can teach you. I’m your host, Bob Wheeler. In this episode, we are going to explore why we do what we do when it comes to money as a CPA for the past 30 years. Wait, let me say 25, because that makes me sound younger. I have seen it all when it comes to money and emotions.

[00:00:21] And if you think I’m talking about my clients, I’m not. I’m talking about myself. My relationship with money has been, and sometimes still is an emotional roller coaster. Maybe that’s something you’re also familiar with. Good news. You and I are not the only ones. Our next guest is going to share their money, beliefs, money blocks, and life challenges as well.

[00:00:43] Buckle your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

[00:01:06] As CEO of all about people, the third largest minority owned company in the state of Arizona, our next guest, Charles Mitchell is no stranger to helping people all about people is an Arizona based recruiting firm that aims to not only have impact on the lives of those who they directly serve, but also have a ripple effect on the C.

[00:01:23] Outside of serving the community there. Charles is co-founder of the conscious vibe podcast where he and Dr. Darrell Jones interview a diverse group of people in order to elevate intellect through conscious dialogue, when he is not inspiring people on the podcast or running all about people. Charles serves on boards for community endeavors, both locally and nationally.

[00:01:43] Today we have the honor of having not one but two guests. So also with us today is the co-founder of the conscious vibe, Dr. Darrell Jones, in addition to facilitating multi-faceted conversations around race politics, business, and culture on the podcast, he owns and operates a consulting firm, which specializes in organizational development de and I, which for those of you that don’t know is diversity, equity and inclusion and culture.

[00:02:09] Prior to hanging his own shingle. He held executive positions at Nike. He is also the founder and president of the E five foundation based in Chicago, Illinois, a nonprofit focused on transformation of Chicago’s underserved youth in critical areas of development. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. 

[00:02:25] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Thank 

[00:02:25] Charles Mitchell: you, Bob.

[00:02:26] Thank you, Bob. Glad to be 

[00:02:27] Bob Wheeler: here. So, let me ask you this. You’ve created this podcast to have wonderful conversations, to bring things to consciousness. How did that happen, Charles? 

[00:02:37] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: It’s your turn? 

[00:02:39] Charles Mitchell: I was wondering who was gonna, who’s gonna get the honor this time. It has it roots during the beginning of the pandemic DJ.

[00:02:46] And I met probably a couple months before that and found ourselves having just rich conversations, literally from the night we first. Through the next several months as we’re kind of navigating what’s happening to all of us in life. And it was either on his patio, on my patio. Sometimes it was just the two of us.

[00:03:03] Sometimes we had, you know, a couple of other buddies of ours who would be joining us in the conversation and we just found it to be really not only rich and, you know, opportunities for us both to learn and have different perspectives. We had a lot of fun. Yeah. And I think that was probably one of the bigger aspects for me is that we were enjoying this dialogue and conversation, challenging each other in a number of areas that we felt were important.

[00:03:27] And then we just looked at ourselves and said, we need to take this conversation beyond just the two of us or a handful of us and stretch it out into maybe a bigger community and people who would hear these conversations and dialogue, maybe perhaps be inspired, but at a minimum, get a chance to hear perspectives that perhaps they’re not hearing every.

[00:03:45] Bob Wheeler: Anything you would add? I wanna say Dr. DJ . Well, whatever works for you. 

[00:03:49] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: I DJ’s fine. Whatever works DJ is fine. That’s 

[00:03:52] Charles Mitchell: a good name. I like that. Dr. DJ. Uh, DJ’s good. I’m gonna use that 

[00:03:56] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: from now on not a whole lot, Bob. I mean, Charles said it. I think the other element. That he and I talk a lot about is just the trust that we had for each other, that we were aligned on what this would look like.

[00:04:09] We didn’t have the total vision laid out, but we knew fundamentally what we wanted to achieve and we trusted each other to get there. Mm-hmm and it’s been awesome. Now that we’re moving into year three. Yeah, 

[00:04:20] Bob Wheeler: no doubt. That is awesome. So let me ask you this for both of you growing up. Was your idea to create your own companies?

[00:04:28] Was it your idea to one day, have a podcast? Like what was it like growing up for you both in terms of siblings, finances, did your parents talk about it? What was your environment like for each of 

[00:04:43] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: you? I can hit that pretty quickly. I grew up with a single mile through sixth grade. Then my grandmother seventh through 12th.

[00:04:51] So I was the only man in the house besides maybe two weeks of my life when my mom and dad were attempting to reconcile when I was in third grade, that’s the backdrop. So my mom was hustling and grinding, never finished her college degree, but always found a way to land in nice roles that allowed us to, you know, flourish.

[00:05:14] So we lived in some neighborhoods, some tough neighborhoods at times, but there was always love in the. As far as what I aspired to be, it was either a professional football player or a psychologist. And that was through high school. Even though I was a business major undergrad, I still had this vision of being a psychologist.

[00:05:33] Once I knew the cleats were hung up in football. And today I sort of meshed my love for psychology and my love for business in the work that I do now. But those were the two things I was squirrly focused on growing up. 

[00:05:48] Bob Wheeler: And was there any common denominator between playing football and psychology? 

[00:05:53] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yeah, I think the psychological aspects of any sport are underestimated.

[00:05:58] Yeah. You know, we see these NFL quarterbacks, just for example, point guards in the NFL. And the level of psychology involved, especially when you start talking about directing and guiding teams and memory and application and all those things. There’s heavy psychology in that. Yeah. And I think that connection continues to resonate today when I watch sports or play what little sports that I do, I still work out quite a bit.

[00:06:23] And there’s heavy psychology in that, especially when I don’t feel like going to the gym. 

[00:06:27] Bob Wheeler: for sure. tomorrow. 

[00:06:31] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Exactly. Thinking the day off. That’s 

[00:06:34] Bob Wheeler: right. And how about you, Charles? 

[00:06:36] Charles Mitchell: Uh, it’s so funny, you know, just thinking about psychology, literally just came back from a session with my trainer and it is one of those things where there’s days when you just don’t wanna do it.

[00:06:46] Right. And the psychology around. What you’re trying to accomplish has to be bigger than what your mind or your body’s trying to tell you in the moment. So I totally agree with DJ in terms of my, uh, mob agreement. It’s interesting. I came from two very different sides of family, my mother’s side of family, very much academia, you know, even through like in early 1920s, thirties, as you know, African American families in the.

[00:07:12] I had a, a grandfather with a PhD, great aunts who attended NYU and got master’s degrees and just very unheard of at that particular time. And then my mother and her siblings all went to college graduated, and my mother even has a master’s degree on my father’s side of the family. My grandfather stopped going to school in sixth grade.

[00:07:31] My grandmother graduated from high school, but nothing beyond that, but they both managed to send five kids to college and they all graduated. So I think the foundation for me and my father also has a master’s degree. The foundation for me was always education was a big, big, big focus in my home. Growing up, knew that was just gonna be a part of my life, not just on the sort of secondary education standpoint, going to college, but certainly beyond that, to try to accomplish something more beyond what my parents did and leverage that as possible means for opportunity in life.

[00:08:03] I think when it comes back to entrepreneurial. My grandmother, who, again, didn’t have an education passed in 12th grade was an entrepreneur, was a Flo she own Flores business and a small town in the south for 60 years, literally until she couldn’t work anymore. And I just remember being in her shop after school many, many days, and even putting together my own arrangements to try to sell them.

[00:08:25] I never forget the first time I sold a, an arrangement for 10 bucks in her shop. I still recall that. And I think that was one of the drivers for me to ultimately wanna be in this for myself and as an entre. But I think going back into where my real focus was in terms of, you know, making sure that the education was a big part of my life.

[00:08:43] I don’t really recall having this real foundation around financial literacy and money. Wasn’t a big topic in our home. I always say I had everything I needed and a little bit of what I wanted. It just wasn’t that money was flowing in our home, that we were anywhere close to being. We. But I felt like we were rich in terms of love in terms of like what our parents provided us, my sister and I, I have a younger sister.

[00:09:09] And so I think that showed up for me probably my early years in college, getting a job and working part-time while I was in college and then thinking, okay, I’ve got a little money in my pocket, go get a credit card and boom, next thing you know, you’re, you’re in. And you see these payments come every week, month with interest.

[00:09:27] And that was a big lesson for me. And unfortunately it was a lesson I learned in college and learned early and one not to repeat later in life, I think had those conversations happen in my home when I was a lot younger, maybe perhaps in high school, that would’ve been a different story, but you know, it was one of those things where I had to learn that lesson on my own.

[00:09:43] I think it was one of the best I’ve had in terms of what it means to really extend yourself beyond what your means. I know 

[00:09:50] Bob Wheeler: Charles, you said you had entrepreneurs in your family, but was that something that was on track for both of you that like, oh, this is something I wanna do. Was there this thought of like, I need to do one better than my parents or the next generation that I’ve gotta pay it forward.

[00:10:09] Was there any that kind of conversation or was it more of like, I just gotta survive? Like, what was the drive? 

[00:10:16] Charles Mitchell: I think for me, I was in an in rose program, which was an internship program, right. Outta high school, going to college and happened to be around some really motivated young people as well. It was a minority internship program.

[00:10:28] We would toss around ideas about starting businesses had a t-shirt business early on in those early college years. But I think the focus for me was getting this corporate job right, going through the motions of getting this degree in business, going out, getting a good corporate job with a big corporation that was sort of the focus of the timeframe we weren’t necessarily thinking about how do we move into the next entrepreneur opportunity.

[00:10:51] And I don’t think it was until I got beyond. Graduate business school and in law school, where I think the light bulb went off for me, that there were opportunities out there from an entrepreneur perspective that, you know, if I went down this path, that it could be Wally successful depending on my effort.

[00:11:05] And obviously meaning a good business. Yeah. 

[00:11:08] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Not dissimilar to Charles. It was about getting a good job. Mm-hmm and I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but it was probably relative to prior generation mm-hmm and in high school, it was about going college. Right? So whether that was a football scholarship, academic scholarship, or working and going, that was the first one on my mom’s side to get a college degree.

[00:11:29] So that was the thrust there. 

[00:11:31] Bob Wheeler: Well, and I’m curious about Charles, you were mentioning that like, even back in the twenties, in the south, you had relatives that had college degrees and things like that. And to me, it’s like a lot of people go, wow. You know, that’s impressive. There’s also a lot of barriers.

[00:11:49] Like a lot of people will go, oh yeah, my grandmother and my great-grandmother. Right. But that’s somebody coming from privilege. And the obstacles that your family may have had to go through. And I’m wondering, even as you got these corporate jobs, there were still, I would imagine challenges that someone like myself might not have had to go.

[00:12:08] Yeah. You know, I 

[00:12:09] Charles Mitchell: felt really fortunate, quite frankly. You know, there were a lot of times when I was really focused on wanting to be the athlete that DJ spoke about. I was a basketball player, aspiring to do things beyond high school or college. And my folks just looked at it very, very differently. They could care less about they weren’t rooted in sports and they just didn’t care about it.

[00:12:29] And that foundation for me, I really appreciated today and I appreciate it now. And so that was a helpful piece for me, being able to stay grounded in what was really important at the time. Right. And so I think it was those experiences that helped me move in that direction and stay in that direction.

[00:12:46] Bob Wheeler: Now you started a company that recruits and helps people get jobs. Now, do you work specifically with minorities getting placement or it just happens to be that it’s minority owned and you work with placing everybody. I’m just trying to like, get a sense of empowering and lifting up people. Or 

[00:13:06] Charles Mitchell: we’re just a minority own company.

[00:13:07] We recruit in place for all different skill sets, but also all different kinds of people and their backgrounds and experiences. I think because of how we’re rooted, we definitely come across and work with a lot of minority candidates in place with them as well. But we’ve always been in a firm that we’re just trying to place the best talent in the marketplace and whoever that talent might be, we’re certainly advocating with our clients when they have a need.

[00:13:29] And they are thinking of this as something that would be more of a diverse hire that they’re interested in. We’re obviously very supportive of that and gonna go to market and do our best to find that top talent that also happens to be. 

[00:13:39] Bob Wheeler: Okay. And I’m just gonna keep calling you Dr. DJ, because I gotta use doctor, like, you worked hard for doctor.

[00:13:45] I’m gonna keep bringing it in. You started something, 

[00:13:48] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Bob, that’s gonna stay 

[00:13:51] Bob Wheeler: that’s you know what? You gotta be like, Hey, I worked for it. I’m everybody’s gotta know I’m a doctor. I’m a doctor. With your firm and working with inclusion diversity equity, when we’re looking at firms and finances and in terms of pay gaps and that disparity, do you come across that a lot with the firms and the work that you do?

[00:14:13] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yeah. To the extent that companies want to do that work and expose that type of data. Absolutely. It’s one of many issues, Bob, that exists as it relates to diversity or lack of diversity. Mm-hmm, oftentimes even when that data’s presented and we do the assessments to determine what the real issues are and the root of those issue.

[00:14:35] The willingness on typically a homogenous executive team to act upon the solutions is where the biggest challenges come in. Yeah, because it reframes the perspective of everybody in the organization, stakeholders, shareholders, once that commitment has to be made. So for example, recruiting from an H B C U.

[00:14:55] Now you might be surprised how many companies don’t want that label on. Though they wanna hire more black employees, which is odd, right? They’d rather get them from Arizona state or wherever it might be. So there are a number of challenges, but again, it’s all contingent upon what environment, what culture and what values you want to create.

[00:15:14] Mm-hmm not just the spouses values, but lived values within the 

[00:15:18] Bob Wheeler: organization. You said that that’s the biggest challenge is actually the implementation. That’s great information. Now you actually want me to live it. It seems to me like part of that resistance is now this homogenous group of people might actually have to take personal accountability.

[00:15:33] Mm-hmm they might actually have to be responsible and take actionable items that actually model what you’re proposing to implement 

[00:15:42] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: and shift many of the practices that have gone UN. In the organization, if it does become more diverse, 

[00:15:50] Bob Wheeler: absolutely. You come into a company and people may go, yeah, yeah, let’s do this.

[00:15:54] We wanna do this. It looks good. Mm-hmm and we wanna be diverse. And now I’m having to look at myself right. And go, oh, now I actually have to mm-hmm like step up to the plate. Now that I know better. How do you bring in that wide welcome or get people to get on board with it so that they’re not like, oh, I gotta be defensive or that’s not what I meant.

[00:16:15] Like, how do you get people on board so that we can create this wider? Welcome. 

[00:16:20] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yes. I don’t push too hard if you want the truth. It’s not my job. It’s not my role. And it’s not about the money at this point for me. It’s truly about trying. and I’ve walked away from clients who haven’t been willing to actually execute.

[00:16:35] I don’t wanna waste their time or my time. They expect me to operate with integrity. I expect that from them as well. And that’s very clear upfront. So at the six month point, when we go back and kind of do a contract review and we’ve achieved these wonderful things, but the stop gap has to do with execution and that doesn’t fall on me.

[00:16:53] I also don’t Bob want to be branded on a website? On flyers as their person of record, right. When they’re not really trying to make. Right. So that’s dangerous in a number of different. Sure. So I’ve had to walk away from several clients and that’s not ideal, but at the end of the day, that might be what’s best for everyone.

[00:17:13] Mm-hmm that doesn’t always happen more times than not. We’re able to execute and see some really, really seismic shifts in the. 

[00:17:21] Bob Wheeler: In some of those shifts, do you see increases in pay or equity in pay or is that still a big 

[00:17:27] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: hurdle? It’s still a big hurdle, but we do see it because you’re bringing in people who actually come from an environment oftentimes where they’re just blown away and they’re not gonna accept certain amounts of money compensation, but you know, better representation at higher levels in the organization.

[00:17:43] That’s always a focus. More diverse people at the executive table. That’s always a focus, voice, the ability to exercise voice in terms of culture and values and respect. So those are the things that I really focus on this a seven dimension scale that I work off of authenticity, transparency, respect, values, culture, cetera.

[00:18:03] So that’s what we measure and hope to shift whenever we go into an organization. And that’s what we measure on the back end coming 

[00:18:11] Bob Wheeler: up. Sometimes when I hear diversity, It feels like it’s oversimplified. Like a company might go, oh, I wanna have diversity. I’m gonna have two black people and we’ll have an Asian person.

[00:18:22] And even that like an Asian person, well, wait, are we talking the Philippines? Are we talking China? Are we talking Japan? Right? Mm-hmm or even if we’re talking to person of color, are we talking about west Africa? Are we talking about Haiti? Like, it’s not as simple as, oh, we’ve got a nice little mix and I’ve worked in some organizations where we use the word complexity.

[00:18:42] Some people wanna come in and go, Hey, let’s bring in the diversity guy and make it just like, and simplify. Do you come across that or does sometimes a company come in and they’re oversimplifying the process? 

[00:18:56] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yeah. And that oversimplification ends up being confusion. So a couple things. One is what you spoke about.

[00:19:03] Let’s make it so simple. We need two black folks in Asian and a Latina, right. And we’re probably good for the next year. That’s 

[00:19:10] Bob Wheeler: oversimplification, right? 

[00:19:13] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: The other is such a strong focus on demographics and not psychographics that you can have 10 Herschel walkers in an organization and not make much progress.

[00:19:22] Right. And I truly mean 10 Herschel Walker. and you’re not really gonna make much progress in terms of diversity. As a matter of fact, you may shift yourself in the other direction. Right. Just because you’ve got the numbers now. Right. So there’s a psychographic piece. Yeah. Which is so important when we talk about, again, things like HBCUs and culture and that sort of thing.

[00:19:43] So if you are real about wanting that, then be real about being open to where that comes from. 

[00:19:48] Bob Wheeler: What would you say are the biggest challenges like that you face personally? In bringing in clients or working with people and I’ll ask Charles yep. Similar as well, because like there are daily hurdles, right?

[00:20:03] Mm-hmm , it’s not just pie in the sky kind of stuff, but like, actually when I get up today, these are the things I’m gonna face. And these are gonna be the challenges that I have to deal with that other people maybe don’t 

[00:20:12] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: oh yeah. Charles. And then I’ll follow 

[00:20:14] Charles Mitchell: up. It’s interesting. I don’t necessarily think about this all the time, because I think if you did, you , it would wear on you, right?

[00:20:21] Yeah. If every morning I woke up with this understanding that, okay, you know, I’m walking outta the door today, a black man and people are gonna look at me different and they’re gonna treat me different and they’re gonna have different expectations of me. And I know all those things are real. Right. And I know that when I show up, whether it’s a business meeting or if I show.

[00:20:39] At some sort of event. And mostly in my case, I’m doing a lot of things around business and business owners and the business community. And that tends to be where I live here in, in Scottsdale, Arizona, that tends to be overwhelmingly white audience. And so I think perceptions around your abilities and your quality, certainly.

[00:20:58] Tend to get no challenged. And those are things that I’ve come to expect. But I also know that I’m rooted in, you know, my experience and expertise and who I am as a human being and what value I bring. And so having that being where I’m always coming from and having that confidence about that, that sort of carries the day for me.

[00:21:17] And so every single day, I’m walking out the door, understanding who I am, what I do to create value for myself and for my business. And then obviously for others as well, that keeps me focused on that part of things and not so much on what are people thinking about me? Mm-hmm I know those things are always going to be a part of the equation, but I’m just trying to keep it simple in terms of what I need to do every day to focus on being my best.

[00:21:41] Bob, 

[00:21:41] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: I’ll speak to this one from a personal perspective. You know, I’ve always tried to operate from the beginning of my career in the nineties. When I started a professional career, it’s always been important to me to try to operate from a singular identity, whether I’m hanging out with Charles or at the, or at work.

[00:21:59] And I think the challenge for a lot of I’ll speak directly around black folks. Mm-hmm is they aren’t necessarily empowered to show up with their most authentic identity. right. And that can be a challenge and it can be psychologically damaging. So I focus a lot on those conversations with black youth.

[00:22:20] That was a lot back when I was running that foundation in Chicago, I was having that conversation about being confident about your authentic self. So I think a lot of the stress and self preservation and debilitating behaviors comes in not being able to come in with an authentic identity that is your best.

[00:22:39] You you’re having to shape, shift and try to figure out how to fit into a conversation or a workplace. And that becomes the focus and not performing. And for me personally, it was a big impetus for me to not ever work in corporate America again, unless I chose. So part of my initiative in retiring early was just that wanting to operate with a singular identity.

[00:23:02] And I didn’t feel like I compromised myself every day or ever compromise myself. I just knew when I felt like am I really being my authentic self? I’m not sure. Part of where I feel really liberated today is that I’m. That I operate with my authentic self and you know exactly, who’s gonna show up whether it’s a podcast, the gym, a consulting session, or in Charles’ 

[00:23:25] Charles Mitchell: backyard, you know, just a couple seconds here for me.

[00:23:28] I can’t stress how one important, what DJ just shared is and how critical for the ability to really thrive and flourish. Quite frankly, you know, if you’re sitting in a seat like DJ and I, I knew early on. Before I attended law school and it was probably one of the impetus for me to move on from the corporate career that I was moving along in was that I realized really quickly that I could not be my authentic self.

[00:23:53] And after having some real conversations with somebody leaders within the organization, I am a multinational, large organization. I will say. I just realized that wasn’t gonna be a place where I could thrive and grow. And so I went down this path of practicing law. Worked wealthy in the early stages of that practice, but also understood that there were gonna be limitations there as well.

[00:24:13] And for me to be who I wanted to be all the time, I had to pursue my own path as an entrepreneur. And even then it took some years quite frankly, to sort of live in that seat of authenticity every single day, because you’re in front of clients, you’re having to certainly have a perspective with candidates and people that you work with day in and day out that sometimes.

[00:24:35] It may not require you to be something different, but it certainly requires you to meet yourself at times and not share some of those perspectives. And I think I’d say over the last five to 10 years, as I’ve sort of moved into this space as an entrepreneur where I’ve been really rooted and rounded in a good business where we’ve had a lot of success.

[00:24:53] And then financially having the ability to sort of live in a place or space where I have means where I don’t have a lot of concerns about anyone being able to take any of that away from me, cuz I know I’ve worked hard during it and that there’s a lot more moving into the future for what I can accomplish and do and build upon it.

[00:25:10] So those things have allowed me to live in a place or a space again of being really, truly authentic and know who I am and have that same person show up just about everywhere I am in. 

[00:25:21] Bob Wheeler: It’s painful and sad to hear that you don’t get to show up authentically or that you have to temper it to be able to fit in or to be able to navigate through the corporate or wherever that’s something.

[00:25:34] It feels a little foreign to me in a way, because I feel like I just get to sort of be entitled and have that little privilege and just say whatever I think. And if somebody doesn’t like it, I can tell ’em to shut up or I’ll go over here. Like, that’s not on my radar as often. I think that, oh, I need to make sure that I’m not gonna be perceived as angry or oh, wow.

[00:25:55] Like, that’s amazing that they’re so capable. That’s surprising. Right? Like, I don’t have these. I mean, maybe I do, but I don’t think that I have these stereotypes or these assumptions that are being made about me generally. And so that saddens me. I’m glad that you both went out and you know, if you’re not gonna have me at the table, I’m gonna go make my own table and I’m gonna have a lot more people at my table.

[00:26:15] and then do it my way. And so that’s the part that’s empowering and that feels really good. Is that. Yeah, I’m gonna be my authentic self regardless of what it takes and then pay that forward to the youth out there to help them get to be their authentic selves through the work that you do in the community.

[00:26:35] That just feels like, wow, that’s a lot to carry. 

[00:26:39] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: And, you know, Bob, they aren’t always monumental shifts in self-identity mm-hmm, sometimes they’re very micro in nature. And the last piece you talked about I think is critically important because you do going through that process, if you’re diligent and self aware, you’re building new muscle at the same time.

[00:26:57] Right. So when you talked about yourself, not having to do. You’re also not building that muscle. Right. Right. So you don’t have to necessarily put yourself in another culture. Right. So you end. Being void of that later in life. Oftentimes unless you’re seeking it out personally, which a lot of folks don’t.

[00:27:16] So the upside is what you said at the end is that there’s this muscle being built and there’s application for that muscle. Absolutely. Yeah. There 

[00:27:25] Charles Mitchell: is a power in being able to read the room and you understand what’s happening, but no one knows what’s going on in your hip strategically. A lot of times you can use that to your advantage and it’s just a default, right?

[00:27:37] It’s what it is. And. DJ and I aren’t walking around feeling sorry for ourselves. Mm-hmm, , we’re just finding ways to use this as a mechanism for us to be able to leverage it. However we need to, to be at our best 

[00:27:51] Bob Wheeler: mm-hmm . And how are you, like in your personal lives, moving that forward in terms of finances, are you working on, you know, oh, I need to have generational wealth or I’m needing to do these different things.

[00:28:03] Like how. Not that money again is the be all end all kind of thing. But having financial independence, 

[00:28:11] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: it’s very important though, by it’s very important is very important. Financial independence 

[00:28:15] Charles Mitchell: is critical. DJ. And I talk about this a lot. We don’t minimize it at all. It’s critical to 

[00:28:20] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: our existence and I 

[00:28:22] Charles Mitchell: think we should talk more about it.

[00:28:23] 100%. I agree. You 

[00:28:25] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: know, I’ll let Charles speak to the generational piece. He’s got three kids and a. So he’s in a bit of a different situation than I am. I’m trying to create generational wealth for somebody. I don’t even know who it is right now. I’m not married anymore. And I don’t have children. I still look at it as if I’m creating generational wealth, for sure.

[00:28:44] Annuity streams. That means real estate. That means businesses because I never plan to have to be in corporate America again, unless I really, really want to. So that’s very important and being creative and aware and having networks really matters too. But. Having ideas that are concepts that you can actually use as content for me have been really critical.

[00:29:11] And that was part of the impetus to go back and get my doctorate. Yeah. So there was a dollar sign at the end of that for me also. 

[00:29:18] Charles Mitchell: Yeah, for sure. Generational wealth is absolutely critical and that’s, you know, part of what my family and I are building full out of, of different reasons. I want my kids to be able to have a lot of options.

[00:29:27] When I think having the financial ability to make choices that aren’t predicated on, can I afford to do this, or am I able to go and be involved in this or that certainly changes the direction of what you’re able to do in life. And so I want them to have options of if you wanna start a business, or if you wanna go to graduate school or law school, like you, you don’t have to be burdened with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.

[00:29:50] Try to make that. I have a little bit of a unique situation. I have two kids with special needs, and so there’s gonna be a need for at least one of them to probably have a lot of long term care. And so that for me is a huge, huge piece to make sure that they’re taken care of and have an ability to live a really high quality life and not one where that somehow stuck in the system.

[00:30:08] As we all know, doesn’t take care of our people the 

[00:30:10] Bob Wheeler: way they need. It’s interesting. The state of California and the city of Manhattan beach just recently gave back some property to the great grandsons, saw that yeah. Of the family, where it was the black beach that was taken away and all this stuff. Yeah.

[00:30:24] Mm-hmm and one of the pieces that they talked about was making reparations for the fact that there was loss of generational income to this family. That this had all been taken away and it was just a small step, you know, it didn’t make it all right, but it was at least a movement towards replacing what was taken because this family that had created generational wealth, it was just pulled from them.

[00:30:50] And so opportunities for the grandkids or for the kids, like things were missed. And I don’t think people fully grasp. The damage that was done. Yeah. The 

[00:31:01] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: impact, right? The impact a hundred percent correct. 

[00:31:04] Charles Mitchell: And that’s a rifle cosm of the bigger landscape, because you can take that example. And that has happened tens of thousands of times, right.

[00:31:14] All over this country where literally on the backs of slaves and black Americans, American Indians, even Hispanics leader, you know, later in years being low page wage, earn. Millions and billions have been made in terms of generational wealth that taking land free labor. All those things have enabled an entire multi-generation of people to have a ton of success in this country.

[00:31:40] And lots of wealth that if you had this massive transfer of wealth, who knows what that will look like, it would look very, very different than what it looks like today than what it looked like a hundred years ago, 200 years. 

[00:31:50] Bob Wheeler: And that’s why I think these conversations are so important to keep having and keep having to have these uncomfortable conversations because for a lot of people who’ve gotten to benefit off of that to have to acknowledge that or in any way, say that, oh, no, I worked hard for this.

[00:32:06] No, well debatable. Right? Mm-hmm until there’s some acknowledgement and personal responsibility, how this country has operated for a very long time. It’s improved, but dramatically, maybe not. I still think that’s open to debate. And so to me, it’s important that we keep having these conversations and make people be uncomfortable if they get uncomfortable, because it just can’t be brought up enough in my opinion.

[00:32:34] Charles Mitchell: Correct. And I think that’s part of what we’re dealing with right now in this country today. There’s a lot of resistance to that. You’re willing to have this conversation with the two of us. And I think if more people were willing to have these kinds of conversations, we’ve been in a much different place.

[00:32:47] But the reality is I think there’s a driving force to take us back in time, because this is such a difficult conversation, a difficult dialogue that people are demanding today. And I think the more demands we have for this convers. 20 years ago and DJ may have the same perspective, but 20 years ago, when we were first trying to talk about diversity, we were trying to coax people into the dialogue.

[00:33:09] We were trying to make people comfortable where they were okay. Sitting in a room and saying, are you okay? We wanna make sure that. Your tears are authentic too. Whereas today I think there’s a greater demand of like, we can’t sit around and wait for you to come to this table. We wanna have these conversations.

[00:33:24] We’re gonna have this conversation now. Cause we have to, in order to advance the lives that really need to have more opportunity, more recognition and just. Ground the stand on and call their own. And that insistence, I think, is creating this backlash of make America. Great. Again, yeah. Those kinds of dialogues and conversations are being rooted in the fact that people are scared that somehow their place in life is gonna get uprooted.

[00:33:49] Whereas I think the bigger opportunity is having this growth mindset. There’s enough for all of us, right? Let’s just figure out a way to make this a situation where more opportunity for me means more opportunity for you. When we do that together, there’s nothing we can accomplish as a community, as people, and as a nation, that’s the dialogue 

[00:34:08] Bob Wheeler: we need to be having.

[00:34:09] Yeah. And I think what comes to mind, I probably don’t have the same. Right. But you know, those with privilege when they have to share feels like oppression, right? Because like, I have to give up all my pieces of pie, even though you don’t have any. And so it’s a hard conversation. I think I know, like for myself, having to look at my own socialization, look at my own conscious and unconscious racial bias or places where I’ve been complicit in a system that serves me.

[00:34:36] It’s painful to look. To then have to look at all that and then know that it’s not everybody else’s problem to make me feel better about myself and that everybody else needs to take care of me. It’s like having to own that. That’s a lot, I think for a lot of people where they’re like, well, I’m feeling really comfortable.

[00:34:53] Like I don’t wanna look at the ugly parts of me. Right. I don’t wanna look at the wards, but until we do that. Yeah. Bob, 

[00:34:59] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: so we’re seeing today, just recently, there was a young black child riding his bike on the. And a quote, unquote, white neighborhood old white dude comes out and cost him, get the F off my street, get outta my neighborhood.

[00:35:12] Well, yeah, the reality is you don’t own a neighborhood, right? So that giving up is not even yours to give up. Right. Just because you declared it is yours, doesn’t make it yours. So the declaration of ownership, doesn’t entitle you to ownership. Yeah. So we’re seeing. That arrogance that you spoke of mm-hmm expand into, well, whatever I claim is mine is mine, so right.

[00:35:37] It’s becoming really 

[00:35:38] Bob Wheeler: dangerous. Yeah. And I think the hardest what’s been interesting for me is that with all that’s been going on in the world, I guess I falsely believe we were further along than we were. So now having to look at the ugly truth of where things are and then yeah. At least knowing so that we can at least move forward.

[00:35:57] Because if you don’t know where you really are, you can’t really move forward from that place. Mm-hmm . But again, the importance of having these conversations, I have so much to learn. Certainly it’s not always pleasant and the corrective information that I get, I take it in and just keep trying to have these conversations because.

[00:36:15] We’re not gonna get anywhere. If we’re not having them even as uncomfortable, they can be. That’s true. 

[00:36:20] Charles Mitchell: That’s the reason we’re having them Bob. Cause we all learn from one another. And I think that’s the biggest takeaway. Again, going back to why DJ and I started the conscious vibe podcast. We wanna illuminate some of these conversations and have others join us in it.

[00:36:32] And again, I said, join us. We’re not trying to necessarily tell you what the conversation has to be, but we need to hear one another. And I think that’s an important. 

[00:36:41] Bob Wheeler: And to me, of course, bringing back into the money piece, financial literacy and financial equality is such a big piece of this whole conversation, because it has been about unequitable wealth.

[00:36:56] It’s a few people that have been able to hold onto because they jumped in there and either had the might or the power or the guns or whatever. And like, to me, it’s just so important that we get back to. Piece with financial literacy that hasn’t been taught in underserved and underrepresented communities, and really start to empower people because there is plenty for everybody.

[00:37:17] It doesn’t have to be it’s limited. And if I don’t get it all, then nobody else is gonna get it. 

[00:37:23] Charles Mitchell: Right. 

[00:37:24] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yeah. And even with the heavy, heavy institutional roadblocks that exist for oftentimes people of color, especially black folks. There are opportunities and you need to be aware of those opportunities and to your point, literate around those opportunities in order to even recognize them.

[00:37:43] So understanding what is an interest rate, you know, even learning that sort of thing in high school, what is that? What’s an interest rate. What does its fluctuation apply? What’s the pledge, asset loan. All of these things are really, really important. They become important and living through ignorance, isn’t gonna help any of us.

[00:38:01] So the literacy piece is really, really important. Yeah. And oftentimes, and it’s not necessarily any one’s fault growing up. I really couldn’t expect a whole lot of that in the home. What I could expect. Make sure you save enough money. Right. But we know life is a little bit deeper than that when you’re trying to become an entrepreneur, et cetera.

[00:38:20] So some of that’s just on us, we can’t expect that from prior generations, et cetera. Right. But we have to be thirsty for Bob. You know, we have to want to. And typically it starts with some sort of vision. And then you build in the meaning of financial literacy around that. But it’s extremely important when I decided I wanted my last day of work to be July 17th, 2015, I better had been financially literate.

[00:38:43] If I was gonna walk out of Nike in and say, you’re never gonna see me again. I better know what I was talking about. 

[00:38:49] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, absolutely. I have a lot of clients that don’t even put money in the bank cuz they don’t trust the bank. even something as simple as can I trust that? Or can I trust the mortgage company?

[00:38:58] Like all those, the red lining and all those different things or bias in interest rates? Yep. I mean, it just goes on and on. So the more we can teach that financial literacy piece and across cultures, it’s just not. . And so for me, it’s just getting out there and hoping to help empower people with financial literacy to get curious, to get thirsty so that we can start to change the landscape and empower more people.

[00:39:27] Mm-hmm 

[00:39:27] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: and we have to be thirsty ourselves, right? Yeah. Even if it’s never taught to us, it doesn’t mean we can’t learn it. Yeah, 

[00:39:33] Bob Wheeler: absolutely. Well, gentlemen, we are at the fast five. I really could have this conversation for another next week. because it feels so important. But in fairness to our listeners, we are at the fast five.

[00:39:47] Fast five is brought to you by acorns, where you can invest spare change bank smarter, say for retirement and more for more information, check out the link in the show. We’re gonna jump into the fast five. I do just want to talk that piece about acorns, self, automated savings and all that thing. Even if it’s five bucks people out there listening five bucks, just start doing something towards your financial future.

[00:40:09] It doesn’t have to be huge. You just have to start walking. All right. We’re gonna have fun with some questions here. You can decide. Who’s gonna answer first. If you could go back in time and correct one money mistake, what would you correct? I put Charles 

[00:40:23] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: on the spot early. So I’ll take the heat and lead with that one.

[00:40:28] I sold a property that I should have held onto. I thought the market was shifting down and for some reason would never come back again. And I got antsy and sold that property for a loss. Hmm. Not fun. No. Especially when I look at what that property’s going for today. ah, yeah, but it was early in life and I learned my.

[00:40:47] Yeah, 

[00:40:48] Bob Wheeler: painful, painful emotions. Get the best of us with that stuff. Mm-hmm not coming back. All right, Charles, what’s the most expensive thing you ever purchased? That’s not a car or a house. Probably 

[00:40:58] Charles Mitchell: embarrassed to say that. Um, 

[00:41:02] Bob Wheeler: we won’t judge. We won’t judge 

[00:41:04] Charles Mitchell: probably, you know, I just made a recent purchase.

[00:41:06] That’s probably the most expensive thing. That’s not a car or house, but it’s a piece of borrow. Nice, nice. And it’s one that I’m really excited about. And I don’t have it yet because they’re still in the exhibit where I found it, but very, very excited to make an investment in area where I’ve never been able to do so, or at least didn’t have enough education to feel like I could.

[00:41:25] And so that’s probably been the biggest purchase I’ve made or the most missed person I’ve made 

[00:41:29] Bob Wheeler: at this point. That’s awesome. I think art and artists are definitely underappreciated, so that’s super cool. When were you the most grateful to have. When I knew I 

[00:41:39] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: wanted to retire from corporate America.

[00:41:43] Bob Wheeler: that’s definitely a good time. How about yourself, Charles? 

[00:41:47] Charles Mitchell: I think it’s just having a wherewithal sometimes to make decisions where you wanna do something, whether it be by home or second home or. Making an investment. I got an opportunity probably about six months ago to make an investment. And something that felt was a technology that would be really put us away, create explosive growth in cyber security and was attached to some work that Google was doing and being able to actually write the check to make what I would call a significant investment.

[00:42:16] Yeah. It was good to be able to do those things and have to think twice. 

[00:42:19] Bob Wheeler: And not worrying if it’s gonna clear the bank 

[00:42:23] Charles Mitchell: well, right. Or that it’s gonna, as I always like to say is gonna change the way you eat, right? Yeah. 

[00:42:28] Bob Wheeler: When was the first time you felt like you had made it financially? For 

[00:42:31] Charles Mitchell: me? I think the first time was we bought a second home in prone, Mr.

[00:42:36] Newport beach area. And as you can imagine in real estate, that area is not INP. To be able to make that purchase in a time in life where I felt like I was just sort of like sprouting my wings and beginning to make inroads financially was just a really big deal. So great. 

[00:42:53] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Yeah. For me, I know I keep saying this.

[00:42:56] Oh, when I didn’t have to get up and go to work. Nice. 

[00:42:59] Bob Wheeler: Nice. What is something you think you overspend on, but refuse to stop buying Maritas 

[00:43:06] Charles Mitchell: so that was easy.

[00:43:12] Bob Wheeler: Um, 

[00:43:13] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: it was probably at one point automobiles for me. Okay, but I don’t have that problem anymore. 

[00:43:21] Bob Wheeler: you take public transportation? You gave up on the cars. Yeah, I walk everywhere I go now. Oh, there you go. 

[00:43:26] Charles Mitchell: Awesome. 

[00:43:29] Bob Wheeler: All right. Well, we are at our M and M moment, our sweet spot money and motivation. Can you each give either a practical, financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom that’s worked for you that you could share with our listeners?

[00:43:39] For 

[00:43:39] Charles Mitchell: me, it’s really simple. This is gonna maybe be oversimplified for the most. If you can’t pay cash for it, you can’t really afford it. Yep. And cash is keen. I think that’s where we continue to not only have the opportunity to take advantage of opportunity in life to build wealth or acquire what I would call assets that grow in value.

[00:43:59] If you don’t have cash to do those things, you’re able to participate. Yeah. Cash is keen. 

[00:44:04] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: I think you’re always paying somebody’s mortgage, whether it’s yours or the landlord. So just know you’re never not paying a mortgage. Yeah. And I think that that’s critical to understand. I’m not saying buying is always the best decision over renting, but primarily it probably is, but don’t ever think you’re getting away, not paying a mortgage because you are.

[00:44:26] Bob Wheeler: It’s either yours or somebody else’s absolutely right. Might as well make it yours might as well make it yours. Absolutely. Where can people find you online? Where can they find the podcast and where can they even just engage your services for your companies? Well, I’ll 

[00:44:40] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: start with the podcast. It’s T CV podcast.com.

[00:44:45] That’s the conscious vibe podcast.com TCV podcast dot. And then just for me personally, I’m DJ the doc on Instagram. So any inquiries hit me there and we can have a discussion from that point, DJ T H E D O C. 

[00:45:01] Charles Mitchell: Awesome. And then for me, I’m a little behind at times, but you can find me on my website, my company, all about people is www.allaboutpeople.net.

[00:45:10] There should be a link to my email to reach me there. Sounds good. I’ll call 

[00:45:14] Bob Wheeler: you on my flip phone. 

[00:45:16] Charles Mitchell: there you go. Exactly. 

[00:45:17] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: And Hey Bob, wanna compliment you on this format? I think Charles and I have a lot of discussions just around financial literacy and the importance of financial. And not at all in a popular collar sort of way.

[00:45:31] Yeah. It’s relationship to flourishing and even mental health. Absolutely. And the fact that you have a format that embraces that and illuminates that I think is critical. 

[00:45:41] Charles Mitchell: Yeah. Cheers to that 100%. That’s exactly right. Well, 

[00:45:45] Bob Wheeler: thank you. I appreciate it. It just feels so important. I know I didn’t get a lot of messaging and had to learn a lot of stuff on my own, and I know there’s a lot of people out there that certainly didn’t get the resources or the tools.

[00:45:56] And it’s just so important from my perspective that like we just empowered the youth and actually empower everybody. But mm-hmm , it feels like a mission. Yeah, it’s just very dear to my heart. So that’s awesome. I appreciate 

[00:46:08] Charles Mitchell: that, Bob. We really appreciate it. It’s been a pleasure. We’ve enjoyed this. It’s 

[00:46:12] Bob Wheeler: been a pleasure.

[00:46:12] I’ve really enjoyed having you both on and anything I can do to help. Please let me know, love to support and uplift the work that you’re doing. So thank you so much. 

[00:46:21] Dr. Daryl L. Jones: Thank you, Bob. Thank 

[00:46:22] Charles Mitchell: you for having us. Thank you. We’ll stay in touch for sure. Have a good one. You too, buddy. Take care about be.

[00:46:35] Bob Wheeler: We hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn something new about your relationship to money today? Maybe you have a friend who has some financial blocks or beliefs that are holding them back. Please share this podcast. So they too can get off the roller coaster ride of financial fears and journey towards financial freedom.

[00:46:51] To learn how to have a healthy relationship with money. Visit the money nerve.com. That’s nerve not nerd. We’ll be back next week with another perspective on money and the emotions that bind us.

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