Marsha, it’s so great to have you on the show. It’s been a while. I know we’ve been trying to coordinate, so I’m super excited to have you here today.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I am thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me, Bob.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, so, you know, I have all these questions, but I want to jump to what really struck me the most and why I was a little bit excited. You’re an NLP storyteller. And a lot of people may not be familiar with NLP. For me, it was really an important study that I, you know, learning that I got.

And it’s part of what I used for Money Nerve and all that stuff. I was already sort of thinking that way about the neurological pathways and all that stuff. But can you say a little bit about when an NLP storyteller is?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yes, absolutely. So first off, NLP is neuro-linguistic programming and it is really looking at an understanding like the power of your thoughts, the power of your subconscious mind and how you really see the world, what you see. Because some people will look at one situation, some will see possibility and some will see hopelessness. It really is looking at how our mind works and understanding. difference between the conscious and the subconscious mind and this was one of the biggest things for me that drew me to the work is the fact that our conscious mind is responsible for one to five percent of what we are thinking and feeling and so that is like the goal setter so you know the person who’s always setting the vision boards and doing that they’re doing that with their conscious mind but the subconscious mind is 95 plus percent of who we are And most of that was created before the age of seven.

And so we have stories and programs running in our consciousness, which is our body, all day long. And I think it is, I actually just looked this up number yesterday for a podcast, and I think it is 80,000 thoughts a day, and 80% of them we repeat every single day. And of those, like 75 plus percent are negative. So… The reason that that’s important is because I can set the vision board, I can consciously work so hard to hit my goals. If I don’t believe that I can, then I won’t.

And that is why we can get so close as humans to our goals, but then we self-sabotage over and over and over because we don’t believe that we are capable or worthy of achieving it. And I selfishly went into this work because of… really skipping past a lot of steps of healing and understanding that I’m a pretty tough cookie, but you can’t out muscle limiting beliefs. I’ve tried my whole life.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
And so it was like, let’s stop and step back and actually look at what was holding me back. And the more I dove into the work, the more it just, it was so powerful to learn how powerful our own brain is.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, it’s amazing. And, you know, not just the brain, the body, right? You also talk about the body has a story. I talk about every story has a cost. I have a background in somatic therapy, body-based therapy, and we hold so much, not just in our brain unconsciously, but our body, we hold so much. And at least for myself, there was a lot of unrecognized trauma that I had to work through.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yeah, I thank you for sharing that and that’s the the piece we talk about our subconscious mind. That’s like literally our our whole body. And so if you’ve ever been in a situation where you actually have a reaction to something even though it hasn’t happened yet, that’s that’s your body getting you ready for stress that you anticipate that’s coming. That’s not even there yet.

And that’s this really powerful when you start to understand it, but we hold that trauma. inside of our body. And I don’t have the stats on this, but for anybody who’s listening, it’s really powerful to look at the work to understand that people who have undergone, you know, consistent trauma in their life or persistent trauma, and that they have been in a really heightened state of fight or flight, that their correlation with autoimmune disorders is incredibly high.

I am not a doctor diagnosing, I’m just saying that we are seeing more and more proof. that what we are doing is affecting our body and how we are carrying ourself, it makes a difference, it really does.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to say about fight or flight. So I used to go into these workshops and I would do these things or even in my own, just in my life. And I was like, well, I don’t I don’t flee and I don’t fight. I freeze, which is also a form of flight. And so for the longest time, I’m like, but I’m not fleeing. I’m frozen. And so just for those out there that are like me going, well, I’m not fleeing. You’re fleeing your body in a way. But it is part of the flight. And I just, for a long time it confused me because I was like, no, I’m here. I’m just…

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
That’s such a great point. It really is such a great point because you’re right. People might look at it and say, but I don’t flight. Like I don’t have the flight and I don’t fight. Whatever your reaction is, it’s really interesting to start to ask yourself like how much energy am I spending in this process that’s not creating change?

And I think like for me, I recognize the power of NLP because I was a good fighter. I could fight every single battle. Like, and that was, and I mean, this is, I joke and I laugh, not in a self-deprecating way. This is just recognizing that that was my reaction to trauma from an early age. I was a fighter, I was a fighter. And those skills worked for me really well until they didn’t. And I think that’s the other piece, is that we all have strengths.

We’ve learned them. It’s how we learn to cope and move through our life. But there does come a point where those strengths, they literally become a weakness. And we have to learn a different way of doing things because we’re not achieving what we want to achieve or we’re not creating results that we want to. And we’re the common denominator. So we have to start to look at what is it that I could learn to do differently.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things, what excited me is, you’ve got some of these phrases that feel so important to me, silenced to outspoken. So there’s so many people I believe. So I have a belief that we all wanna be in connection. We all wanna know that we matter. And we all wanna have impact. Deep, secretly down, even if most of us don’t own that, I truly believe those three

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I

Bob Wheeler:
things.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
agree.

Bob Wheeler:
And so for me, I was living in complete fear. Outwardly, I could land on my feet and I would just go, oh my God, I don’t know how that happened again, right? I was just really lucky a lot of times.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
I presented really well, but inside I was terrified. And if you got me in a group of people, I could barely say my name, professionally in my office, safe in my chair, I could give all kinds of wisdom, but out in the world, terrified. And so… For me, there was a piece though that kept saying, I wanna have impact, I wanna know that I matter, and I wanna be in connection with people.

And the way I’m doing it right now, it’s not authentic, it’s not real, and I don’t believe it. And so I had to dive in deeply and look at a lot of stuff, confront a lot of demons, go through a lot. And the reason I do all this is to help other people recognize that they have the power to do it scared, do it shaking, the quiver in your voice, but show up. Your voice matters. It’s unique. It’s different. And it matters.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
it, your voice absolutely does matter. And I would say like one of the things that people do come to me for and ask is this piece on, you know, how do I use my voice? So I can’t do it like you can do it. I’m like, okay, but you’re looking at like year 10 of doing this. It’s just like we compare our chapter one to someone else’s chapter 20. And I think that sometimes when you get to chapter 20, like chapter 20 is still not chapter 50.

So we still always have room to grow. But we have to remember that that chapter 20, like where did we start? And we started when it was messy and it was, I just did it. And so I think this is a piece of it is that it can be very slippery slope to look at someone else on social media and think I can’t do it like they do, but you don’t know what chapter you’re looking at them in and you don’t know, you don’t know their story.

I say this all the time. You think you know someone’s story because you see one glimpse of their day. online and you don’t ever know their story. And so why can’t we let someone else who has we maybe aspire to be more like be a guiding light to show you what’s possible instead of a comparison piece. And so the messy action people say to me so hot like how do I even start I’m like you do one thing outside your comfort zone and I actually, I openly share it all the time. I do not hide it.

I do not take any of my first work off of any of my profiles and I leave it all up there because I want people to see that we have to give ourselves room to grow and to get better. And so I openly shared that video 10 years ago that I went live on Facebook right after hot yoga looking like a real hot mess. and not trying to be perfect. I did that on purpose because I was like, well, this is me, this is not polished. I had a really difficult story. So it actually seemed very incongruent to go online looking perfectly polished when my life was a disaster.

That made no sense. So I was like, this is me, take it or leave it. And that messy action piece is something that we all have to put the time in, right? Like the Malcolm Gladwell quote, like 10,000 hours. It’s just, if you wanna get better at something, you have to be willing to do that work. So from silence to outspoken, those words really spoke with me because I’ve always had a voice. And for a number of years, I let that voice shut down because of shame, because of difficulties in my own story. And I started to embrace being outspoken again through the work of NLP. But it’s also got an interesting meaning because that was what I was always told I was too much of as a kid.

I was too outspoken. I wouldn’t stop, you know, stop using your voice. You’re saying too much, you’re doing these things. And I’m like, I just as who I am. Like I didn’t understand. But when I was 10, I went to my parents and said I wanted to be in a public speaking competition and they were like, no, no, you can’t do that. I’m like, why not? Like, because it’s scary. And this was my word back as a 10 year old was like, it’s not scary for me. Like why is it, I wanna do it.

And I fought them to the point that I did and then I won the region that I was in. And I only say this because I could have bought that story that it was scary to be on stage, but for some reason I recognized even then that that was their story, not mine. And I wanted to do it. So, Outspoken has a very special meaning for me.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. And I want to say like when people, so sometimes outspoken has negative connotations, right?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
Outspoken is too much. Or outspoken means nobody else gets to speak. And I want to say that you being outspoken, me being outspoken, if I’m conscious and aware. I can still allow other people to be outspoken too, right? It doesn’t mean that I have to narcissistically say, only I get to be outspoken and everybody else must be silenced.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s that there’s room and a warm, wide welcome for everybody to be outspoken if they so choose, right? It’s not

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
100%.

Bob Wheeler:
that everybody must. But so I think, you know, for me it’s always… important to remind that I’m trying to also hold space for other people. So I want to find my space. I want to find my ground. I want to find my voice. And I want to hold space for other people to imperfectly find their voice and their space.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I love that you said that and the fact that you’re saying, and yes, it is a distinction. I know that the word outspoken can trigger some people and I’m okay with that because it’s like, definitely it stirs up a thing that I can’t do that. And I’m like, well, when did you start that story? So it’s interesting. I also think that by being outspoken shows others what is possible, that they can use their voice in a very respectful way.

The other piece is that being able to show up and be outspoken. and hold space for others is really important. And we can’t hold space for others if we are not listening to what they’re saying. And we cannot hold space for others if we are trying to fix and control and manage and do like respond to what they’re saying. Sometimes we have to learn how to just hold space for them. And I think because of the work that I do, I do get a lot of really difficult stories that come my way sometimes.

And you know what people need is they just need to hear, I hear you, like I hear you, thank you for sharing. They don’t need us to fix it. So even in those early stages, when somebody is like openly just starting to share a story and they might, their voice cracks, they might cry, they might be, that is outspoken for them because that’s a huge, it’s a huge step for them to be able to start to use their voice.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. How do you motivate individuals, right? You hear them, you witness them, but how do you get individuals to continue working towards their goals and stay focused and hopefully positive in the midst of challenges, like drug addiction of teens or whatever those, we have a lot of challenges on a daily

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
We

Bob Wheeler:
basis.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
do. We do, and I think that there’s a first piece there is that we have to acknowledge that we do have a lot of challenges. And I mean, I think we’re facing a lot of challenges, which makes it really difficult at times. I think that motivating people, this is my thought on it, is that we can always only lead ourselves and we can show others what is possible.

I can’t make anyone. do anything, but I can show them what is possible. And that’s really important for me. As I’m the, the way I like to say it as a coach is that I’m not one who pushes and pulls you through things. I will stand beside you and cheer you on and show you what’s possible. So I think that’s a part of it. And being able to, you know, where can we recognize the small wins and the things that we’ve done? So when I just referenced that example about somebody sharing a difficult story. I had one last week and you could see this person was petrified to do it. I didn’t push her to do it. I just held space and she spoke and shared her story. Absolutely fell apart and I was like, I am so proud of you.

This takes so much courage. She goes, where do I go from here? I’m like one step at a time. Like right now you need to honor what you’ve done today because I think we get so caught up in the big goals that we forget to honor. the steps that we’re taking every single day because it’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey and what we’re doing. And so I think that’s part of it is really honoring those steps. And when we have some of those challenges, it’s like, I always bring it back to a space of ownership.

And again, that’s another word that might trigger some people but ownership is like taking full radical responsibility for ourselves. Like… Am I showing up as my best version? What is something I can do for myself today? And I’m a human being, I change every single day. Some days I wake up and I can knock it out of the park and other days I wake up and I’m like, this is gonna be an interesting day. I could literally do everything the same.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
So we have to honor where our bodies are at, where our minds are at, where our capacity is at, and have that compassion and grace within ourselves, especially when we’re here, stepping up to do what I call It’s challenging work. It’s not easy work. It’s, but I believe that we’re called to it.

Bob Wheeler:
Absolutely, it is definitely not easy work. I went into it kicking and screaming. I always go into it kicking and screaming, but I know on the other side, the benefit and the value and the insight, it’s always worth it, even though it’s terrifying going in.

One of the things you talked about, holding space, and I think this is so important, being witnessed, holding space for people. with so much technology, with all the things on our apps and our phones, and we’re all so busy, right, that sometimes the next step is just sitting in being with it.

And I think we don’t stop enough sometimes to just say, wow, that was a big share. Wow, I’ve been holding that for a really long time.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
Nothing else like and let’s just hold that. Because I think we’re so busy like, oh, now I get to the next thing. Or I don’t want to really actually feel into all of that because I might have to feel some grief or some disappointment or, or whatever it might be. And so I just want to really reiterate this piece about, um, holding space. It’s so important. Hold that space,

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
take some breaths.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I love that you said that because I think that as much as I am sharing to hold space for others, we have to hold it for ourselves too. And we have to give ourselves that grace our devices like we are literally the most connected disconnected society ever.

And so we have to be very mindful. I believe that it’s it’s important for each of us to go inward and recognize like where’s my energy going because we like where are those leaks we have leaks all day long. and the phone is a really slippery,

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
it’s a slippery slope, it’s a tool, right? You can use the tool or it uses you, I say that with love because many people are being controlled by their phone at all times, it’s a tool that’s using you, so how can you use it?

And recognizing your energy and what your thoughts are and how you’re responding, that might mean, like I have real set timers on my phone, I never have notifications on. and I do not have, I do not follow an account that does not make me feel good. I’m sorry, it’s just, it’s really important for me. If I am, if I think that people go, well, shouldn’t, you know, you’re living in a little box. No, I just recognize my energy.

And if I don’t resonate with the values of somebody that I’m following, and it’s a shiny penny, then I’m like, no. No, I just, I’m really clear on where my energy goes because that energy, it’s fine, it, we only have so much every day. And if you’re looking to create change in your life and you have nothing left, then that comes back to responsibility. Where are my leaks so that I can, you know, fill my cup first so that I can go after what I’m here to do.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely. What came up for me is be aware of shiny pennies and objects. They can be

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
There’s

Bob Wheeler:
tricks.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
a lot of them.

Bob Wheeler:
Shiny objects can be a lot of distractions. So we’re talking about mindset. We’re talking about programming, mental programming and stuff. If we take it to money and make it personal, can you tell me about a time? Like I still sometimes struggle with money issues, right? It’s forever. But can you tell me about a time where you’ve personally struggled with money and how you overcame that or how you continue to overcome it?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yes, and I am always real and honest. So I’m gonna share with you that there was a time when we were in a space of dealing with teen substance abuse for a number of years. Our family life was falling apart. It was financially stressful, is an understatement and a half. And I couldn’t even cope with opening up bills.

I couldn’t even cope with, like, I shut down in a lot of ways. And to the point that I even had, like I just had months of bills in a plastic bag. I couldn’t figure out how to even cope with anything. And digging out of that, I know I’m not alone in that, but it’s really important that when you’re trying to create a shift money-wise too, or anything, don’t apply shame to it, because shame will never make you change your behavior. It will never make you change your behavior.

Doesn’t work, trust me. And so what I started to do was like, okay, this is where I’m at. I can’t figure out where I wanna go until I know where I’m at today. And we went through this time where it’s like, I remember sitting down and having to like pull out and figure out bills and start to have some really hard conversations. And how am I going to navigate this? So the thing that I didn’t even understand then, I’ve learned it now, but I was learning it then is a sense that our thoughts are only ever replaying the past or creating our future. They only do one of two things.

That’s it. And so even when it comes to money, I could have. sat in the space of being such a failure, such a like, who am I to all of those things, they come down to worthiness and pieces. And it was like, this is not my reality. This is where I am now, but this is not what I’m creating. So I started writing little things where I would write on my bills, like thank you for a zero balance in my bills. If I could pay $10 on a bill, thank you for a decreasing balance in my bills. and I recognized I would write it out. I would be like so thankful that if I had $100 in my account, I used to look at it and go like, you only have $100, how are you gonna do this?

Instead, it would be like, I have $100, but I just paid $3,000 worth of bills. Like look at all the things that I did cover and did do, and looking for proof of where I was becoming more and more responsible. And the other thing that I did, and I still do on a regular basis, is I practice scripting. Started scripting long before I even knew what subconscious reprogramming was and scripting is just writing out It’s not an affirmation Scripting is writing it out as though. It’s already done It’s already notes already done.

So, you know, it is May 30th and All my taxes are done. I’ve done so proud of myself for having this organized. I I Speak it into existence. I would read it every day and I would talk about money and This is, I think, the really interesting thing and it’s important, I’m gonna tie it back to the very beginning when we started. Don’t just write about the money and the dollars that you want, you have to evoke an emotion when you are, if you want to create a change.

And so I would sit in a space, write it down and feel it that I am so proud for what I have done. I’m so proud that I’ve paid my bills every week. I’m so proud that I’ve sat down and done this and then you evoke emotion. So I rewrite that script about every three months. and I’m working it towards certain goals. And it’s amazing how accurate it has been.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that’s awesome. And I appreciate you giving the practicality and specifics of scripting so that if somebody listening, instead of going, oh, I think I know what they mean, yeah, you know what she means.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
It’s yeah, yeah, it’s powerful.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s it’s it is super powerful. I’m wondering if in this transition period, right, I’ve got a pile of bills. They’re in a plastic bag to grateful. And I’m all about gratitude. It’s sometimes for people hard to get to gratitude. It feels impossible. And I’m wondering. So I talk about this.

I like to create hiccups in my in my thinking, right. I like to interrupt. my thought process so that if I’m, I’m broke, I’m broke, it’ll never hap- Whoop! Stop! Catch it! Okay, I’ve, in the past, I’ve not been able to pay my bills and I’m working towards something different, right? Trying to bridge into a new future. And I’m wondering, um, your thoughts about interrupting patterns or hiccups that I like to call them in this shift because we don’t get there overnight, right? We may go forward three steps and go back two.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
And you will, you will go forward two steps, back three over and over and over. I often say that as we create these changes in mindset, like in the beginning, things would take me out of the knees and I’d be out for a week. Now it’s like a trip over a speed bump. It’s like, oh, okay, get back to like, get my thoughts back on track.

And I believe that we have to become master pattern interrupters, like a ninja. That’s how I say it. You have to catch yourself. The faster you can catch yourself, honestly, the faster you’re gonna redirect yourself. And it’s not, you’re not lying to yourself. It’s just, you’re choosing what you see. Because again, we can have the same situation. What glasses I choose, what filter I choose to see it is gonna dictate what I see. And so it’s very important. It, there was no point, I’m not even gonna lie, that point there from bills in a bag to being grateful was not overnight.

And it still has its moments, right? It still has its moments. All of a sudden, up pops a $2,000 bill that was not planned. And it’s like, okay, what can we do with this? What can we do with this? And it’s practice, but I definitely think it is redirecting, like having that master pattern interrupter, and then rewrite the sentence in the moment. Find something that evokes emotion for you, that rewrites it. And so one of the things I used to say, all the time is that the universe like the universe surprises me.

I am surrounded by possibilities and opportunities that come my way every single day. Like every single day opportunities come my way. And it was amazing that it would allow me to focus on all of a sudden, wait, there came $5,000 that I was not expecting on. You know, we had a moment. I’m just being super honest. We had a moment today.

My husband started a new job last year. and he was four weeks behind what would have been the date for profit sharing. And so, but he’s worked as like a dog, he’s done all these things. And so he messaged me this morning to tell me what he was going to get bonus wise, but it was like substantially less than what would have been had he started four weeks earlier. And in

Bob Wheeler:
Wow.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
that moment, in that moment, right, that was just today, and my husband’s like, wow, that money would have been really nice. I’m like, it would have. And every part of me wants to scream right now because it’s like, okay, we were that close. I said, you know what? We are getting this. I’m grateful for that. And because that dollar was thrown out there, it’s available in the universe for us. It’s available. So we’re just gonna keep going

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
and we’re grateful for what we have. So redirecting patterns in the minute, in the exact moment. can really help you to see it differently. So I couldn’t agree with you more.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, and you know, that sort of ties into, you have, I believe it’s the name of your podcast, Own Your Choices, Own Your Life. And, you know, when we don’t make a choice, we’ve made a choice. And…

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
always.

Bob Wheeler:
We’re deciding by not deciding. And so for me, one of the things that I really encourage people to do, and I hold myself to this, is to really be intentional in what I say and to be very conscious of what I say so that if I can hear my story of like, oh, my God, my life is so sad and I’ve had to do it. Well, stop.

Let’s get a different story that I want one that’s uplifting and a little more fun. Right. But it’s so important. in my mind that we get conscious of what we’ve been saying so that we can then have the ability to change it, right? And to be intentional. Intentional in how I spend, intentional how I show up in the world. It’s very like I work and strive to be very intentional.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I think that’s actually a very important piece. And I would say that the intentionality is for everything in our day and how we choose to show up. And I think that is incredibly important. And when it comes to it, like, it’s like, do I, it’s like, how do I say this? There’ve been times where, like my husband will say, we can’t afford that. And I’m like, you know what?

I don’t want to speak like that. Like I really don’t. Instead it’s like, I don’t choose that right now. Like, I don’t choose that right now. That’s not what I want right now. It’s actually not what I want. Sure, maybe I can’t afford to do what this is, but I don’t even want that. Like it’s interesting, right?

Like we could look at it and go, I can’t afford the $2 million house. I don’t even want it. So it’s like, what am I, why am I doing that to myself? The other piece that I want to share that you just prompted with me, and it’s been a very valuable tool. I’ve used it and I use it whenever my mindset gets off money-wise. Right back to the day of the plastic bag. I wrote a letter to money and I wrote it like it was a friend.

And I thought that was the silliest thing in the world because I was devouring all these books on abundance and money mindset. And I’m like, what do I have to lose? Like I obviously don’t have it figured out. So I’m going to try it. And I sat down to write this letter and I wrote it like it was a friend and I’ll tell you something that emotionally brought up a lot. It ended up being a five or six page letter and it was like, you know why I actually haven’t treated you very well.

I’m just gonna, I’m gonna admit that I have not treated you very well, but I am willing to have a relationship with you and I will respect you and I am because money is energy. I, it’s not fluffy, but it is energy and I think it’s important. We have to be in a space as humans, as entrepreneurs, that we feel safe. This is, a mentor said this to me, we have to feel safe with regardless of where we are. We can have, right?

We are… I don’t think we’re defined by the times that we’re winning. I think we’re defined by the times that we’re not technically. And so it’s really important. Can you feel safe when you’re having a low month when you’re not having the same sales that you were having? Because that’s I think is really important and the letter to money is something that I go back to in a regular basis. And I think it’s really important when it comes to our bodies, the stories, what we’re telling ourselves and subconsciously feeling safe with having money.

Bob Wheeler:
Absolutely. And I love that you brought that up. In workshops, we exchange wallets and purses. And it’s amazing what comes up. A bit of shame and a bit of how am I going to present. But this talking with your money. So I go in and talk with my money. I open my wallet. I talk to my dollars, ask them to bring their friends in. Lots of Benjamins

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
would be great. Right. And the thing is money doesn’t have to be serious and painful and very distant from us. Make it fun, make it playful.

Look at your bank accounts and go, bring more of this. One thing that I love to do with people that clients that will come in and say, I’ve just inherited a hundred thousand bucks or I just got a windfall, is I ask them to just leave the money in the bank for 30 days and watch people have a meltdown when they have to leave more money in the bank than they’re comfortable with.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I love that idea. I think that I do,

Bob Wheeler:
Hey.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I love that idea. I heard somebody say, like imagine that you won $100,000 and you took that check to the bank and the bank said we have to put a 10 day hold on it even though it’s like it’s active and it’s real. So you as a person, you know that money’s there. How are you gonna show up?

What are you gonna do? And I’ve used that example multiple times. It’s like it’s in my account. How am I gonna show up? Am I gonna buy something different today because that money’s there or am I still the same person? And so I think that’s a great exercise, I love it.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, it’s, you know, the more we can get conscious, the more we can make it a little bit fun because it can be heavy. And actually welcome all that comes in. Like when we do the wallet exercise with people, if there’s grief, feel the grief. You don’t need to judge it. You know, my experience has been, and I was just working with somebody the other day, a lot of anger, and I asked them to explore their compassion, and there was a possibility of grief.

And then when they came back, they just came back to me and said, oh my God, I couldn’t find the compassion until I realized I’m grieving. And there’s so much out there. It’s okay. Like, welcome it, bring it in, love it, don’t judge it. and just be with it, right? Give it space. So,

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
there’s a

Bob Wheeler:
yeah,

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
lot of

Bob Wheeler:
it’s

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
power

Bob Wheeler:
a journey.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
in what you’re saying. Yeah, there’s a lot of power in what you’re saying with emotions. And I think that as a society, we have stopped feeling those emotions. Like we work to push them down and keep going. And I think that there’s enough of us that there’s proof that doesn’t work. Like it doesn’t work to not

Bob Wheeler:
Ha ha

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
feel.

Bob Wheeler:
ha!

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
We’re meant to feel those emotions and emotions are like literally energy and motion. They’re meant to move through you. You’re not meant to hold onto them. And If I can take it back to NLP for one second that I think that is a powerful way to understand how we hold on to our stories, our limiting beliefs subconsciously. We hold on to emotions in the order of anger, sadness, fear, hurt, no anger, sadness, fear, shame, guilt and hurt.

And so if you feel like I’m who doesn’t hold on to some of those emotions in any context, right? And so when you start to be able to strip away some of those limiting beliefs and those stories that are involved with anger, all of a sudden sadness comes up and then all of a sudden hurt comes up and shame comes up.

And it’s a lot to start to release them, especially if you haven’t practiced releasing them on a regular basis, but you have to learn how to change those triggers, those reactions, the stories that are there because you can’t out muscle. limiting belief. You can’t outwork a limiting belief. You can’t change a money story without going back to knowing what those roots are of your story.

Bob Wheeler:
Absolutely. And, you know, I want to say to the listeners out there, because this used to be me, I would say that’s true for everybody but me.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s true for everybody,

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
It

Bob Wheeler:
including

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
is.

Bob Wheeler:
those of you that are saying, except me. No, including you. Including you.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
All of us. All of us. Wow. Well, Marcia, we are at the Fast Five, so we’re going to shift the energy a little bit. You know, I love this stuff, so I’m very passionate about these conversations because They’re so important and I’m so grateful for all the people that were little angels that guided me and believed in me when I didn’t.

So, um, I, yeah, I could talk hours for about this stuff, but we’re at the fast five and the fast five is brought to you by the money nerve. If you would like to test your money nerve, go to test your nerve.com for a free quiz on your relationship with money. All right. So we’re going to have some fun. Hopefully, hopefully they’re not too challenging. What’s one way that you relieve stress after a long day?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm, I take my dog out for a walk. I am like a mover. I like to move or I will sit down with a comedy or I cook, I actually like cooking.

Bob Wheeler:
Oh, awesome. And then

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
you get a tangible reward.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yeah, I

Bob Wheeler:
I

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
do,

Bob Wheeler:
like

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
I’m

Bob Wheeler:
that.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
a bit

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
of a geek for healthy food cooking, I am.

Bob Wheeler:
that’s awesome. What’s the most regrettable purchase you’ve made and why did you regret it?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Oh wow, it’s interesting. This is, I think I’m gonna say, anything I’ve bought on an impulse, I’m not a big shopper. I really am not a big shopper. I’m not, which is funny. I remember buying a dress once that I felt almost like I needed it for a function and I didn’t like it. It didn’t fit me right.

And I was so tired of looking for something else. I brought it home, put it on, hated it, couldn’t return it. and it was like, I will not buy in a pressure situation. So I would say probably a piece of clothing is something like that that I’ve regretted. But everything is teaching me

Bob Wheeler:
But

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
something.

Bob Wheeler:
a few of those myself.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
Exactly.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
everything is teaching

Bob Wheeler:
Exactly.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
me something,

Bob Wheeler:
Always

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
everything.

Bob Wheeler:
a lesson.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Everything. What’s one of your, your personal stories that it took you a long time to own?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
that I, as a parent who dealt with teen substance abuse, that I did not fail as a mother, and that I could take responsibility for my role in how it all unfolded, and that I could do something good for others, and which actually ended up being for myself and our family at the same time, by learning to use my voice and share it.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. And as you say that, I think about all the parental guilt out there, people that beat themselves up and take themselves out. And I think compassion and self forgiveness is such a big part of healing and moving forward.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
and parental guilt is it’s no joke it’s huge and I mean I think we have parental guilt no matter what our kids do or don’t do because we always have pieces that we think we could have done better but one of the things I just learned to do is like in the grand scheme of things based on what we had to deal with in those years did I do everything that I could possibly do and the answer was absolutely I did every single thing I could so that has to be enough sometimes

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Marsha, what’s one thing that we wouldn’t know about you from your resume or anything that would be really interesting to know?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Hmm Hmm, that’s a good one. That I can, I come across as having like a really, like a really strong outside feature and I do, like I am a strong person, I know that, but I’m pretty soft hearted. Like I am pretty soft hearted. I have a really big heart and I want to see other people win and you can find me watching. pretty much any sports movie that’s the true story of somebody overcoming something. You could see me watching it a hundred times over.

That’s just, I just love, I love those things. And I could be in the kitchen and I’m like, Oh, is that coach Carter? My husband’s like, he just turned the channel quickly. He’s like, yes. Like, and I’m always teasing him. And I’m like, it could be worse. I could be the girl who’s watching all the reality love shows. I’m not. So I’m like the sports. I love those. I love those kind of movies.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, be grateful.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Exactly. Exactly. Right? Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Exactly. What could someone tell you that would convince you to do something that you didn’t want to do at first?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Something is if they could show me the results of how it had worked for them and if it was somebody that I had trusted So if it was somebody that I trusted and they could show me the results of how it worked out for them Then I might be more open to seeing it or trying it I definitely would come from a space of of trust first. It has to be somebody I trusted know

Bob Wheeler:
Love it, love it, love it. Well, we are at the sweet spot, M&Ms, money and motivation. Marsha, do you have a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom you could share with our listeners? Something that’s worked for you.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Yes, I think being, when I talk a lot about being vulnerable and being open, don’t be afraid to speak to experts to get help and say, like, am I too late to start? Am I too this? Like, am I too, because I felt that for a long time.

And ironically, it’s my son who’s actually, is a certified financial planner, and he sat down with us and mapped out, like, the next 15 years in ways that felt really good. but it’s not easy to sit down with your grown son and say, this is where we’re at, and can you help us with this? And he set us up with meeting all these people, and we were able to do these things. You can’t change a story until you’re willing to own where you are and get help from people who are able to really make that shift and change with you. And I’ll tell you, there’s way more opportunities and possibilities than you think.

We think it’s like one way, there’s one way there. And we’ve done it with very small regular contributions and it’s amazing how things can add up. So you can change your story in a very short period of time when you choose to be open, ask for help and then could stay on that course on a continuous basis.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, it reminds me when you were just sharing that about asking for help and right, we don’t like to do that or we don’t like to ask the foolish questions. But I saw a great saying the other day, ask a question, be a fool for five minutes, or don’t ask the question and possibly be a fool for life.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Oh, that is such a great quote. Honestly, that that’s such a great quote and I love that. And I think why don’t we ask the question and it’s really because we’re afraid of how we’re going to look we’re afraid that we’re not listen. We’re not here to know every single thing of every single thing that’s possible in this world that like that’s ridiculous.

And so, you know recognizing that and asking and being vulnerable and just letting go of how is this going to look? Cause I remember talking to him and I was like, I don’t know, are we too late? Like we were trying to catch up on 10 years, that was a disaster.

And he just looked at me and he’s like, Mom, you guys are doing fine. Compared to what I see, you’re doing fine. Like it’s just, it has to be enough. And I think that’s a piece of it, is it really brought a peace of mind in having that difficult conversation.

Bob Wheeler:
Yes, and most of us are not well trained in having difficult conversations and learning to stay for the hard parts. And that’s one of the things that I really encourage people to do is learn to stay, learn to have the conversation, set some ground rules, but have those conversations so that you can actually move through them instead of avoid them.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
avoiding them moves you nowhere.

Bob Wheeler:
Moves you nowhere. Marsha, this has just been such an amazing conversation. We’re on the same page on a lot of stuff, or I really resonate with a lot of what you say. I think for me, the biggest takeaway is to show up, get intentional, do the work, right? Because, and learn to ask for help, because so many of us have stayed. in a limiting belief system for a long time.

And for me, I like to call it the under voice, that voice when I say, I want a million bucks and the voice behind it goes, you can never have it, you don’t deserve it. That’s the voice I need to get to know, not the outward voice. And so the more we can start to get familiar with that voice that wants to come in. Tell us we might not be enough.

Tell us that we’re not worthy. We can tell that voice, hey, you might’ve saved me in the past and you thought you were protecting me, but I’m gonna let you go thanks for the service that you gave me and I’m ready for my next chapter. Ready for a new story. So, Marsha, where can people find you online and social media?

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Hmm, thank you. First off, thank you so much for having me, Bob. And I love how you just summarized all that up because that was like, yep, that’s pretty much what we covered. And I’m grateful

Bob Wheeler:
Ha ha

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
to

Bob Wheeler:
ha.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
be here. I am because it’s, you allowed me to step into the money aspect of like rewriting a story. And compared to where we were eight years ago, it’s night and day. Is it perfect? No, but we definitely have a much better relationship with money than we ever did. So I appreciate having this conversation with you. You can find me anywhere if you start typing on Google,

Marcia Van W, it’s me. Like that’s the nice thing we’ll have in my long last name. That’s my website, that’s my social media. It’s everywhere there. And then my podcast is called Own Your Choices, Own Your Life, and we are into episode like 550-ish right now, so it’s been beautiful, grateful experience. But yeah, that’s where you can find me. Anywhere to make it super easy for you.

Bob Wheeler:
We will be sure and share that in the show notes and all that stuff. I so appreciate you coming on sharing your wisdom, your perspective. Folks out there listening, you got this. You are not alone. You can do it. Show up, have some impact and let your voice be heard. Thank you so much.

Marsha Vanwynsberghe:
Thank you so much for having me.