Episode 208

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Episode Description

Why is it that money can be so emotionally charged? One reason is that money often represents our worth and status in society. We may feel ashamed or embarrassed if we don’t have enough money, or we may feel superior if we do. Additionally, money can be a source of stress because it’s often unclear how we should use it. Should we save for the future or spend now? Is there such a thing as too much saved up? These are all questions that can lead to anxiety and stress.

In this episode, wealth advocate and founder of Financial Fundamentals Jenn Wolowich, joins me to discuss the psychology of money. We explore the difficulty in distinguishing between the person & the money – “I’m a bad person because I am terrible with money.” We joke about there being no parades or confetti when we are financially responsible. Jenn vulnerably shares a personal story about wrestling with the need to rob her daughter’s piggy bank.


About Jenn

Jenn has been a money nerd her whole life. While her friends were playing barbies, she was creating a make-believe bank complete with real deposit and withdrawal slips and an even old cheque book from the neighbour. Playing bank didn’t stop her from making terrible financial decisions as an adult and robbing her daughter’s piggy bank to pay credit card bills.

Armed with a degree in psychology, her Financial Advisor designation and her passion for consumer-debt freedom, Jenn is empowering families and individuals to take control of their finances and eliminate financial stress.

If you’re feeling anxious about your finances, visit https://financialfundamentals.ca and learn how take control of your money. Jenn will help you eliminate debt, save on taxes, protect your wealth and master your cash flow so you can rest easy about the future.

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Links Mentioned in the Show

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Episode Transcription

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[00:00:00] Bob Wheeler: When it comes to our finances, many of us feel a sense of dread or anxiety. This is especially true when we are struggling to make ends meet or in debt, but why is it that money can be so emotionally charged? One reason is that money often represents our worth and status in society. We may feel ashamed or embarrassed if we don’t have enough money, or we may feel superior if we do.

[00:00:22] Additionally, money can be a source of stress because it’s often unclear how we should use it. Should we save for the future or spend it? Is there such a thing as too much saved up? These are all questions that can lead to anxiety and stress. In this episode, Jen Wallow Witch and I discussed the difficulty of distinguishing between the person and the money.

[00:00:42] I’m a bad person because I am bad with money. We joked about there being no parades or confetti when we are financially responsible. Jen Vulnerably shared a personal story about wrestling with the need to rob her daughter’s piggy bank. We covered a lot about the psychology of money. I’m Bob Wheeler, and this is [00:01:00] money you should ask, where we explore why we do what we do when it comes to money.

[00:01:25] Jen has been a money nerd. Her whole. While her friends were playing Barbie’s, she was creating a make believe bank complete with real deposit and withdrawal slips and even old checkbooks from the neighbor playing bank. Didn’t stop her from making terrible financial decisions as an adult and robbing her daughter’s piggy bank to pay credit card bills.

[00:01:43] Armed with a degree in psychology, her financial advisor designation and consumer debt freedom, Jen is empowering families and individuals to take control of their finances and eliminate financial. Jen Wich, welcome to the show. So excited to have you here. Aw,

[00:01:59] Jenn Wolowich: thanks Bob [00:02:00] for having me.

[00:02:00] Bob Wheeler: And you’re a wealth advocate. I mean, I think we all advocate for wealth, but what does a wealth advocate do?

[00:02:07] Jenn Wolowich: A wealth advocate for me, I’ve adopted this job title that I feel like I maybe made up a little bit on my own, but mostly because I have the heart of a teacher and I think that there’s something to be said for being a cheerleader for people along the way when they’re not.

[00:02:24] Ready to cheer for themselves or not feeling confident that they can do it. And Wealth Cheerleader sounded a little bit more rah raw than I wanted to do. So Wealth Advocate felt like a great way to describe how I feel about the work that I get to do.

[00:02:39] Bob Wheeler: That’s awesome. And you’ve combined psychology and finance and all this stuff and sort of a money nerd at heart, so it all sort of fits together. So tell me why psychology might be a little bit important in what you.

[00:02:52] Jenn Wolowich: Oh my goodness, because we can’t separate the money from the human. I think there’s a lot of things set up in our financial [00:03:00] structures that are math, math, math, which I also love, but most don’t. And when we focus only on the math and we focus only on the numbers, we’re missing the human factor in all of this.

[00:03:10] And I’ve been involved in some research projects over the last couple years that I’ve adored because really what we’re trying to do is start to have some. Scientific, qualitative and quantitative links between humans and their money, and maybe if there’s some structures that are happening behind the scenes other than we all just know, like, you know, having impulse purchases.

[00:03:32] We’re not doing math at that point, we’re just going with what feels good.

[00:03:37] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. So what I’m hearing is 5,000 comes in, I’ve got 6,000 worth of expenses. Doesn’t feel good, but I’m just gonna move forward anyway and pretend that it balances .

[00:03:47] Jenn Wolowich: Exactly, exactly. When I’m working with clients, it’s not, I can make your numbers work, but if I can’t figure you out, we’re not going anywhere productive.

[00:03:55] Absolutely.

[00:03:56] Bob Wheeler: We gotta know Source . Exactly. We [00:04:00] gotta know who we are. Yeah, for sure. Now you talk about real wealth and that it looks different for. What does real wealth look like for.

[00:04:08] Jenn Wolowich: For me, Oh my goodness. Real world for me comes into play in how you feel in your life. Mm-hmm. , I think we all have heard stories about people who have hordes and hoards and hordes of money and no happiness, and people who are broke with tons of happiness.

[00:04:24] And I think real wealth comes from not just, you know, don’t get me wrong. Money is very helpful and allows me to do things that I like to do, which also brings me happiness. But I can have just as much happiness going for a walk around the pond by my house with my kids as I can going on a trip to Italy.

[00:04:42] So am I willing to say like, No, I only want pond walks? No, but real wealth I think is something that we feel inside as opposed to a number in our bank account. And that’s not to say that there’s not stressors that come from not having money. Real wealth, I think is something that we feel [00:05:00] when we’ve got ourself in a place where we know that our basic needs are taken care of.

[00:05:04] We have some money to do some of the things that we want, but if we’re always looking outside of us for the next thing or more money, we’re never gonna have that feeling.

[00:05:15] Bob Wheeler: Do you think that that is something that is socialized? Like for me, it’s not enough. I gotta get to the next thing and then I gotta do eight more things.

[00:05:22] And I mean, I’ve calmed that voice a little bit, but I can’t be the only one that thinks I’ve gotta hit all these marks and get all the bank accounts at full capacity. Get the oil mill just like pouring out. How do you calm that energy? Or tell yourself Yeah, it’s not just about the money when inside it feels like it’s all about the.

[00:05:43] Jenn Wolowich: You know, I had an awesome opportunity this year to practice in what that feels like. Cause I had set some income goals early in the year that I achieved sooner than I expected to. And then it was like, okay, like what’s next? Like obviously I need to move the target and we’ve gotta go, we gotta go. Like we can’t just, [00:06:00] But then I was like, Wait a second.

[00:06:01] I have kids who are, are 10 and 12 years old right now. They’re still in the moment where they’re willing to spend time with me. , they’re leaving the nest a little bit in terms of not always wanting to be with mom, but there’s this time with them that I’m going, I could feel that and earn more income, but I’m earning income to enhance our lives and enjoy my time with them.

[00:06:22] So this year I really had that opportunity to be like, Well, am I gonna push through and power forward and, you know, work a little later on some of my days off with them? Or am I just gonna sink into the fact that like, No, no, like I have. I have enough to do the things we need to do. If a couple of the things we want to do, and maybe I’m okay like being done at work at three o’clock because they love picking them up.

[00:06:45] You know, my daughter is the second she can drive. She’s never gonna let me pick her up again, right? So if I can pick her up from school right now and be the first one to be like, Hey, like what happened today, you know, in math class? Or who’d you eat lunch? I don’t wanna give up those moments. So I think [00:07:00] that’s where the need for more, more, more.

[00:07:02] It’s like, what do I want more for? Like I want more time with them. So I just need to be really careful that if the money’s coming at the expense of the time, and then also finding ways to be like, Well, how do I get money without the exchange for time too? Right.

[00:07:16] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And how do you create that hiccup? Or how do you help other people change the pattern?

[00:07:23] Because that energy’s real and it’s, whew, you’ve gotta stop and take a different tact. And so how do you help interrupt that mindset?

[00:07:31] Jenn Wolowich: So I have found our most effective strategy in this, both for myself and my clients, is that when we set up structures inside their monthly cash flow that allow us to hit their targets and their long term goals.

[00:07:42] And then after that, anything else is just extra, so to speak. So I found that once those targets are in place and we can just have ease being like, Oh, I put, you know, a certain percentage towards this, this, this, this is my break even point. This is what I must make to make sure I got lights on food in my fridge.

[00:07:59] Those [00:08:00] kind of. And then after that I can choose to look at my schedule and go, I think I’m pretty happy where it’s at. I don’t want more in there. And I appreciate like times. Then we get to a point in our career where we’re no longer exchanging time for money, but I’m still in the hybrid of lots of time for money.

[00:08:17] Right? So once you get there, like that’s a whole other scenario. But all of my clients are still exchanging time for money. Yeah. So when it’s a pretty clear picture when we’re looking at it together.

[00:08:29] Bob Wheeler: And what I’m hearing, you didn’t say it explicitly, but writing down goals, setting benchmarks so that you can then say, Oh, I’ve reached that.

[00:08:39] I can be calm, rather than just like, Oh, I feel I should be calm today. Oh, here’s tangible reasons why I can take a breath. Absolutely. For people that need that comfort of saying, I’ve been a good boy or girl and now I can rest for a moment.

[00:08:54] Jenn Wolowich: Well, and I like, I’m all about tangible. When it comes to money, like it’s very black and white.

[00:08:59] We [00:09:00] either have it or we don’t. We have enough or we don’t. All of those kind of things. And giving ourselves something to look at then doesn’t allow our brains to spiral out of control when we run out scenarios to be like, Okay, well how much longer until your debt is paid off, or what does that look like?

[00:09:14] When we have factual information, we don’t spiral where we lack factual information. I find like we feel that space with wondering and stress and usually not positive things. ,

[00:09:25] Bob Wheeler: Right Now, when you were playing bank as a kid, instead of playing Barbie’s, what was it like at home? Were your parents talking to you about money or were they like, What’s wrong with Jen?

[00:09:35] She’s really into the money. Like what was that like for you? Did you have other siblings? What was the money mindset?

[00:09:42] Jenn Wolowich: To be fair, my sister would play bank with me in exchange for a few hours of me playing Barbie’s with her. So I do have a sister. We’re quite close in age, and our parents, I found that like growing up, we didn’t talk about money a lot.

[00:09:55] My parents very much were like, Oh, well we’ll just do it. Like we’ll just handle it. [00:10:00] We’ll take care of you guys. So that was kind of the atmosphere where it wasn’t a shameful thing, but it wasn’t an open discussion. And in. It’s becoming something that I think we’re pushing for more openness on, but it’s not like we were an anomaly where everyone else’s family was talking about it.

[00:10:15] We just didn’t. So I have very vivid memories of like my parents being very generous with other people or those kind of things. But I think most of the money conversations that did come up really came up around helping others. Mm-hmm. . Whereas in terms of like managing the house or, you know, if we were lacking money, I didn’t know it.

[00:10:34] If we had a lot of money, I didn’t know it. I think that we kind of moseyed on through like pretty average where I didn’t have all brand name clothes, but I could get like the one club Monaco sweatshirt that I definitely wanted to have, that everybody had. I didn’t get in all colors, but we had enough money for one, so like I feel like we were doing okay.

[00:10:52] Yeah. And if we have more money, then my parents did a great job of not letting me spend it all. .

[00:10:59] Bob Wheeler: That’s [00:11:00] very even keeled. Yeah. That’s awesome. Now, you used to believe that clipping coupons and living a life of extreme frugality would like help get you to this life of wealth. Oh my gosh. What’s changed?

[00:11:12] What’s changed?

[00:11:14] Jenn Wolowich: So my life fractured into kind of like a before and after. So for sure I was like, Man, I’ll pick up bottles while I’m pushing my stroller along to, you know, like I had a goal to pay off our mortgage. I was married at the time and I was like, I’ll coupon clip and we’ll only buy better when it’s on sale.

[00:11:31] And like, how many ways can you cook a chicken breast for like, not a lot of money? And we’re not even gonna eat chicken if pork’s what’s on sale. I really like, I was pretty motivated to pay off the mortgage, but being a stay-at-home parent, I considered myself like the bread buyer as opposed to being the bread winner.

[00:11:47] Oh, I like that. In our household. Yeah. So I really was like, how do I stretch a dollar? How do I do all these things? And for me it was exhilarating and. Fun and not to speak on behalf of my ex-husband, but I don’t think he shared my joy [00:12:00] on the fun. So I went really extreme. Did manage to get mortgage paid off by the time I was 33, which was pretty exhilarating.

[00:12:09] But then you go to the bank and I don’t like anyone ze had this experience. I went into the bank and I’m like, Okay, like here we are and we both show up. Cuz when you buy a house, there’s so much paperwork and you both need to be there. And it turns out when you pay off your mortgage, you actually don’t have to.

[00:12:24] You both don’t need to be there. And there’s nothing to sign, right? There’s no prize, there’s no confetti. There was no marching band like . Yeah. Like I was thrilled and I had lots of people who were excited for me, but it was very anti-climactic. And I Yeah. Got so laser focused on like saving a dollar that I missed.

[00:12:43] Like we had so many inefficiencies in our taxes. I was so busy coupon clipping. I wasn’t like, Oh, if I just did, I don’t know, a consult with a client, like I’ll make my whole grocery budget. I just was so laser focused on these little things [00:13:00] that, you know, I have a mentor who says like, you’re stepping over hundreds to pick up pennies.

[00:13:04] Right? And that was me. And my pennies were bottles, right? I was like, Ooh, look at 10 cents. 10 cents, Right? . And then now becoming single meant getting a mortgage again, which I was like, Ooh. Takes a moment to absorb. Like, that wasn’t how I saw that going. But getting a mortgage and going, You know what, I don’t wanna pick up bottles to do at this time.

[00:13:24] Yeah. You know, I don’t wanna have to coupon clip every moment of the day. If my kid wants something from the store, I sometimes wanna be able to say yes without being like, Well, if we’re putting that $3 and 8 cents on the mortgage, sorry, . You know? So becoming single, getting a mortgage again for a second time and going like, What’s the big picture?

[00:13:43] What else can we do here? And you know, do I still aspire to get mortgage free again? For sure. Like I loved not owing any money on my property, but I’m getting there faster with looking at the big picture and not, you know, we still occasionally will pick up some bottles cuz old habits die hard, [00:14:00] but the kids get the bottle money now for whatever they want.

[00:14:02] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, I wanna touch back on something you mentioned. This has come up a few times in the last few episodes. There was no. There is no confetti. Right? You’re doing the financially responsible thing and it’s anticlimactic.

[00:14:17] Jenn Wolowich: It is. It really is. Now, when I have clients who pay off mortgages, I’m like, Please let me know I’m sending you a cake because like it deserves to be celebrated or whatever it is you’re doing.

[00:14:27] But you kind of get to the point where there’s so much focus in our industry and in the financial coaching on like getting out of debt and getting out of debt and I mean all the power to the people helping with that process and the ones walking through it. But then we get to the end and we’re like, Well, now what?

[00:14:46] Right. So that’s where I’ve taken my practice and my business more is for those clients who get there going like, Okay, well here’s now what, and relearning. And I mean I had to go through this process too, relearning like it’s okay to spend [00:15:00] money on things that aren’t maybe meeting our basic needs, right?

[00:15:03] Like it’s okay to buy something that’s a little bit nicer cuz you want. It’s walking through that process and just healing the part where it’s like, Hang on, we’re not in flight or fight anymore. We’re okay and we can splurge on some things or whatnot, or depending on what people wanna spend their money on, right?

[00:15:21] And setting them up to go, like savings and those kind of things. Yeah,

[00:15:24] Bob Wheeler: I think we do miss out on celebrating. I know for me, when I was all about hitting my mark and making the next goal, you don’t really get a chance to sit and rest because that was yesterday and so now I gotta get moving. Right. So I couldn’t really sit there and go, Hey, let’s have a piece of cake.

[00:15:38] It’s like, no, I can’t eat the cake. I gotta stay. Yeah. Gotta be in fit shape. Ready to go. And we miss this piece about celebrating, and as you were talking, I was thinking. A lot of times I’ve seen where maybe somebody’s on government assistance and they’re buying food and they buy a steak or ice cream, and people are like, How dare they use money to do something [00:16:00] nice for themselves?

[00:16:00] They should suffer. Like we have to all suffer incredibly and everybody around us must suffer. How dare they go out and have fun when they should be suffering? Cuz they’re not financially independent. .

[00:16:12] Jenn Wolowich: I love that. You’re completely right cuz we do look and we do that. Like I work hard to not do it, but I fully have that experience where we had adopted a family one year for Christmas to buy their gifts for and on the list were like specific.

[00:16:27] There were teenagers. So keep in mind at the time, my kids were very little. I didn’t know it was hip, but also when I was a teen, I also didn’t know it was hip. So whatever they gave us, you know, I played Monopoly all the time. I played bank like no one’s fooling you that I was super cool. But they had on the list, like these really specific brand name items, like a Xbox game and a couple of things like that.

[00:16:49] And I remember thinking like the year before, it was a single mom who was asking for like underwear for her daughter, pair of slippers for herself. And we looked at the. . We had a moment, like, we definitely were like, I’m [00:17:00] sorry, Like I don’t even buy that brand for me. Like, what is this? And I, I don’t wanna say I feel ashamed of that, but it was such a beautiful learning experience because we did go back and ask the organization, like, if you looked at this list, like, this seems a little off.

[00:17:13] And she’s like, Well, like it is a single mother and. Like dad’s not around, but then dad swoops in shows up and is like, Here’s an Xbox kids, but they don’t have a game and it’s nowhere near mom’s threshold to be able to buy an Xbox game. And then one of the people who had adopted the family with us was like, You know what, when I grew up, I’d rather have one.

[00:17:34] Of the sweaters that I want, like that one brand name sweater. Because probably the only thing they can buy is the Walmart or Well, and I mean Walmart actually, like they’ve got some pretty sweet clothes now too. But you know, he was like, I couldn’t go get anything brand name ever. And that could be the experience they’re having where if you’re going to get donations and stuff, there’s probably not that one cool thing.

[00:17:55] And it reminded me of like my club MoCo shirt. I was like, man, You’re right. I wore the [00:18:00] cuffs off that shirt, and so who am I to look at this list and be like, You know what? I’m sorry that you know, you’re not in a position to buy this yourself, but you can’t have it. Then you should get four pairs of socks instead of one pair.

[00:18:11] Of like, No, it’s okay to want things. And I’ve learned like adopting families. It’s like, No, like this is what we do. We look and we get to have the opportunity to come in and give them something maybe they wouldn’t otherwise be able to have without judgment.

[00:18:26] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. I think that cuts through a lot of cultures where if somebody’s receiving help, they sort of have to receive it our way.

[00:18:33] Like we say, it’s unconditional except for A, B, C, D, and E. And oh, and by the way, this .

[00:18:40] Jenn Wolowich: Yeah. Like you’re nailed it. Right. They have to receive it our way. Yeah. And we need to change that. We need to give without Condit. .

[00:18:46] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And I think that’s hard, right? Cuz we wanna be loving and kind. If you follow my rules,

[00:18:52] Yes. Oh, I sort of grew up with that, so Yeah, it’s interesting. Now I wanna jump to consumer debt cuz [00:19:00] consumer debt has played a big part in your life. Yeah. If my research is correct, you got into some consumer debt, like what?

[00:19:09] Jenn Wolowich: Oh man. Literally the best way to say it is it came about in that I thought it was great with money, to be totally honest.

[00:19:16] I was like, Ugh, I’m so good at it. Like I’m really great at it. And it just turns out at the time was out earning my bad spending, right? So I wasn’t good with money. I just happened to have a job that paid a little bit more than my peers in that age group. Just life gave me an opportunity to see. I was not good with money, you know?

[00:19:36] I then became a stay-at-home mom, so that was one income gone. My fiance at the time lost his job and then got a lesser paying job. So we went from like, if you take 100% of our income and went down to about like 30%. Wow. And I just kept spending the same way because I’m obviously super great with money.

[00:19:55] Right, right. It was my thought. Do that for a hot second [00:20:00] and you’re like, Wait a second, I’m not good at this at all. I just happened to out earn. My terrible, terrible habits. So we did that for a minute until you just can’t, like all of a sudden you’re like, Man, there’s some lessons to be learned here. This is an awakening, I guess.

[00:20:16] Like I remember the first time a credit card bill came that there wasn’t money for, and it was eyeopening. And like, I can’t even tell you what was on there. Probably nothing of relevance or importance. It’s, I’m not like I had to be my baby formula. Like I have no good reason for this. I know that there are some people who end up walking down the path of debt because their financial resources aren’t there.

[00:20:38] But then you get there and you gotta get out and you gotta learn some lessons and. I remember trying to think like, where are we paying for this? Like how are we paying for this? And at the time I had a little baby. My parents had given my daughter a hundred dollar bill, but she was an infant, but they’re like, We wanna be the first ones to like we, this is so cool.

[00:20:55] And so I gotta picture my little baby with her a hundred dollars. And then we put in her little piggy [00:21:00] bank and I’m like, Know it’s there. Like she’s the baby. When I remember I go up and she did this little pink porcelain piggy bank. There’s a couple coins in there and oh my god, like I still get goosebumps like thinking about the sound, cuz we all know what the sound of like coins on porcelain is.

[00:21:14] Right. But yeah, I have no good feelings about this cuz I’m sitting on the floor in her bedroom and she’s in her crib cuz she’s an infant and I’m trying to shake out this a hundred dollars bill cause I know it’s in there and I’m like, I’m crying. And it was not a good day. And I get the money out and I’m like, I can’t this like, you know, And then it’s sitting on the counter.

[00:21:33] I cry some more and I’m like, Am I really robbing my kid? Like, is this what I’m doing today? Like mm-hmm. , like, I’m not doing this because we needed to buy milk and bread. Like, I’m doing this because, Yeah, it was a moment for sure. So I put it back and had another cry and, and just started selling stuff. I was like, Well, clearly there’s stuff around here and that, I mean, that’s usually where I start with my clients.

[00:21:56] Like, What do you have that you’re not using? What can you get rid of? And it’s also like a very [00:22:00] humbling experience for something that you paid a lot of money for that has no resale. Yeah, right. It’s only worth what someone will pay. It has definitely made me a more discerning shopper now, and I’m like, Do I really love this a hundred dollars worth or do I really love this $20 worth because it’s not worth it to anybody else.

[00:22:17] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. Well, I appreciate you telling this story, and I was gonna ask about it if you didn’t share it. And the reason is because I think a lot of parents go through this same anguish. There’s shame, there’s guilt. Like I can’t even imagine all the emotions. Certainly the tears. Like I’m taking from my kid.

[00:22:38] Yeah. I’m supposed to be providing for them. Yeah. They’re young. They won’t notice. And I just wonder what you would say to parents out there. And I also wanna acknowledge, like for me, my parents were not great with money. Not their fault. They just were not taught. They got married really young and they borrowed from our savings.

[00:22:55] And as I got a little bit older, it’s like, why bother because [00:23:00] it’s gonna be taken if somebody else needs it. And so I’m wondering what advice you could offer to people out there that have taken the money, have thought about taking the money and have just overly judged themselves for making this choice.

[00:23:13] Jenn Wolowich: It’s hard. The shame is hard. That I feel like is one of the hardest parts of working with a new client and even for myself, right? And the reason I do share it is because I’m human being. I’m not perfect. Like I walk a path where sometimes I make choices that I don’t love, but we can only do better with what we know.

[00:23:33] So whether you’ve taken money or thought about taking money or whatever, we can only. Different going forward. We can’t change the past, so I couldn’t undo that experience. It happened, but also like it made me who I am. It made me able to sit with a client who’s like I, I did take it actually. I didn’t put it back.

[00:23:52] I didn’t just cry and put it back. I took it and understand like how they got there and understand like they’re not a bad person. [00:24:00] And I think that, you know, when we were talking about like the psychology. Our identities are wrapped up in our money stories. So even when you’re saying like, Oh, well I, in terms of savings, you’re like, Well, someone’s just gonna take it.

[00:24:11] Well, the work is in healing those stories, right? The work is in knowing like, Okay, wait a second. Like is it really getting taken? Is that really the truth? You know, it was an experience that happened in the past, but what can we do different going forward? So for people who are experienced it, or have experienced it, is we can only do better going forward.

[00:24:29] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, it feels like forgiveness is a big part of our financial journey. Mm-hmm. , because we can’t change the past and we can let it go and make different choices going forward. Yep. I agree. Do you mostly work with men? Do you mostly work with women? You went through divorce? Mm-hmm. . I know that that changed some of your, you know, now I have a new mortgage, things like that.

[00:24:51] But did it change your mindset and do you work with people that have these big life change? Yeah.

[00:24:57] Jenn Wolowich: I work with men and women. I seem to [00:25:00] attract mostly families. Mm-hmm. , my friends also joke that like since I’ve become divorced, it’s like there’s this bat symbol in the universe. It’s like Jen’s divorced, she’ll help you

[00:25:10] Only because I feel like we get connection and community through sharing, and I think we also release shame or don’t allow it to grow by sharing. So right from the moment that I was getting divorced and sharing what some of that felt like, and having to go from being a stay at home mom. Working to sharing my children who I had, you know, a hundred percent of the time because I was a stay-at-home mother.

[00:25:32] And just sharing from that place of pain to normalize it, to normalize these conversations, to be like, Hey, like this is what this feels like. And. It’s not great, but I’m not dead. Right. So in terms of like releasing shame or like who is attracted to work with me, I think it just, the people who are attracted to working with me comes from a place that, like I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you what happened.

[00:25:55] Like I’ll share with you, I’ll tell you I robbed my kid because I don’t wanna be a coach [00:26:00] who’s like, I don’t really know what that’s like . And in the background, I’m like, Oh God, it’s so bad. It’s so bad. I’m like, I’ll just tell you what that was like. I walked it. It sucked. Yeah. , it was really bad. Yeah, because what they’re going through also sucks.

[00:26:14] And if I want a client who feels safe to share, then I wanna be able to do the same thing.

[00:26:19] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, I think it’s so important creating safe spaces for ourselves and for clients so that a money conversation is not a conflict. It’s not an argument. It may be intense, but if we can learn to navigate those conversations and normalize them, neutralize the charge.

[00:26:36] You know, even like learn to just say, Oh, I think I need a five minute break, , let’s come back to this topic because I’m not thinking clearly . Yeah. And just learning to be, Okay, cool. Let’s come back after ice cream, or whatever it is, so that we can then start to realize, okay, there are difficult conversations.

[00:26:54] They don’t have to be adversarial.

[00:26:56] Jenn Wolowich: A hundred percent and allowing people [00:27:00] to see how my money story has changed and continues to change, just brings home the fact for them that like, you’re not stuck where you are. You know, feel it, acknowledge it so you can move through it. Otherwise, you just keep hitting that brick wall if you’re not willing to acknowledge that it’s happen.

[00:27:17] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, it’s the great thing about life. As long as we’re breathing, we can keep pivoting and making different choices.

[00:27:22] Jenn Wolowich: Absolutely.

[00:27:26] Bob Wheeler: Jen, we are at the Fast five. The Fast five is brought to you by Greenlight, the debit card for kids, managed by parents. For more information, you can click on the link in the show notes.

[00:27:34] So we’re just gonna jump in there and have some fun. Okay. Which one of your kids takes after you the most when it comes to. Oh,

[00:27:42] Jenn Wolowich: they’ve oscillated between the two of them. They each take a turn. I think right now my daughter a little bit more. Yep.

[00:27:49] Bob Wheeler: What’s the most fun thing you’ve purchased this year?

[00:27:51] Jenn Wolowich: Ooh, travel on repeat.

[00:27:55] I’m dating my passport this year, and every trip has been fun for a whole other [00:28:00] reason. That’s

[00:28:01] Bob Wheeler: awesome. Travel is amazing. What fictional characters finances would you be most curious about? Oh,

[00:28:10] Jenn Wolowich: I don’t even know. I, I don’t really watch much for tv. And in terms of reading, I’ve been reading all nonfiction books lately, so I don’t even like, I feel like I love the movie, The Little Women, so I’m like Uhhuh, maybe someone in there.

[00:28:24] Yeah. .

[00:28:26] Bob Wheeler: I’d be curious to know their perspectives on money in that time period. Right, right. Maybe different, maybe not, Who knows? Yeah. , what’s your number one budgeting tip for.

[00:28:38] Jenn Wolowich: Oh my gosh. Um, get your kids involved. Let them be a part of it. We don’t have to tell them everything, but I believe that once your kids are old enough to know not to eat the money, they’re old enough to be a part of the conversation.

[00:28:51] So when our kids understand what we’re doing, it makes it so much easier to get them in line with what’s going on. Awesome.

[00:28:57] Bob Wheeler: I love that they’re not eating it at this point, it [00:29:00] sounds like. Yeah. So you recently went to Italy. Is there anything that you regret not buy.

[00:29:06] Jenn Wolowich: No, I bought to bring home literally nothing, , and I don’t regret it for a second.

[00:29:12] I brought home one tiny trinket for each kid, and I spent money just having experiences and loving every second of it, and, Like I don’t regret not buying anything there. I feel so happy with coming home with nothing but memories and photos and I was pretty

[00:29:31] Bob Wheeler: happy with that. And you don’t have to pay for the extra bags, so that’s even better.

[00:29:35] That’s awesome. So we are now at our m and m moment, our sweet spot, Money and Motivation. Do you have a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom that has served you well? Person.

[00:29:49] Jenn Wolowich: Not comparing my life to other people. Mm-hmm. . I think that the best thing I’ve done for my money story and my wealth building experience has been not comparing that [00:30:00] my path is not necessarily everyone else’s path and their path isn’t mine.

[00:30:03] So as long as I’m happy with what I’m doing and I’m experiencing joy, I’m not really worried about what anybody else has got going.

[00:30:10] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. I think that’s so important. Well, Jen, this has been such a great conversation. I so appreciate you sharing your perspective, and I do think the psychology and the emotions are such a big part of who we are because we can’t separate the money from the human, from the person.

[00:30:26] I think that’s so important, and I love that you’re willing to be vulnerable with your clients. Because vulnerability connects us. And even though for me often that sounds so counterintuitive and what you want me to show my weaknesses and see me for who I am, the reality is we’re all trying to get there.

[00:30:44] We’re all doing the best we can. We’re all gonna make many, many, many missteps. And it’s about getting back up, not judging ourselves, having some compassion, learning to celebrate. Know that not everybody’s gonna have a parade for us every time we do a financial [00:31:00] accomplishment, , but engaging our kids and not making ourselves bad for not knowing, because we’re all continually learning.

[00:31:06] And so I really appreciate you sharing that, being vulnerable, and talking about your own experience, because I think that’s what helps people start to recognize their own stories and their own beliefs and blocks that keep them from getting what they want. Whether it’s wealth in terms of money, wealth in terms of experience.

[00:31:24] In terms of family and connection, all those things. And so I just so appreciate you coming on the show. Where can people find you on social media and online?

[00:31:34] Jenn Wolowich: Thank you, Bob, for having me. Online I am on Instagram. That’s the thing I keep most current. It’s financial dot Fundamentals is my Instagram page, and then my website is financial fundamentals.ca.

[00:31:48] Bob Wheeler: Awesome. Well we will put all that up. Jen, it’s been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

[00:31:52] Jenn Wolowich: Thank you.[00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Bob Wheeler: We hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn something new about your relationship to money today? Maybe you have a friend who has some financial blocks or beliefs that are holding them back. Please share this podcast so they too can get off the roller coaster Ride of Financial Fears and journey towards financial.

[00:32:17] To learn how to have a healthy relationship with money, visit the money nerve.com. That’s nerve not nerd. We’ll be back next week with another perspective on money and the emotions that bind us.