Kids, Cash and Ketshop. Mari Collins Harris

Bob Wheeler:
Mari, welcome to the show. I am so excited to talk about children’s financial literacy with you.

Mari Collins Harris:
Hi, thank you for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Bob Wheeler:
So can you tell me how you got started? Like what’s your background and what inspired you to create Ketplay? I mean, let me just do that again. See, I even… So Mari, can you tell us how you got started and what inspired you to start Ketchup?

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, so I am a mother of three. My oldest is eight. I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old.

Bob Wheeler:
No.

Mari Collins Harris:
And originally we started Ketchup because my kids just wanted stuff. They wanted a new toy, they wanted a new bike, they wanted, wanted. And we didn’t really have a framework for how and when I would say yes. It would be… Were they good in the last five minutes? Were they, like, was I in a good mood? Had I had my coffee already? It was very arbitrary. And so

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
my children were like velociraptors testing the fences to see when I would break down. And so they’d be like, can I have it? Can I have it? And then either I would get mad and yell at them and feel like a terrible parent, or I would eventually like give up and say yes and feel like a terrible parent.

So the origin of it was more about creating a system in our household where they knew when I would say yes, and I knew when they earned it. So being able to have that framework made our household much more fluent. We didn’t fight as much and everyone knows what to expect. So, yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
I love that consistency for kids. Wow. What a concept they get to

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
actually know. I think, you know, it’s so important that you talk about that. Um, because parents do get mad, right? They’re, they’re having a bad moment and the kid just happened to ask the question at the wrong time. Uh,

Mari Collins Harris:
For

Bob Wheeler:
they have

Mari Collins Harris:
sure.

Bob Wheeler:
no idea what’s going on. Um, and as adults, you’re trying to manage everything else as well as, Hey, loving child, um, and the world’s going on. So.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, we’re not perfect as parents. And I think, you know, there’s this culture of parenting where you have to be the perfect parent. You have to be like getting your kid in swim lessons and, you know, doing violin lessons and paving the way for their future.

And it’s hard to manage all those things, much less like dealing with the stress of the everyday. So Ketchup for us was a way to help our children understand that like money doesn’t just… come out of nowhere and that they can work to earn it. And success happens when you work hard.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that’s so awesome. And I mean, I love that you’re, um, that catch up is teaching kids about financial literacy and I really, you know, you shared the story about having to look over your kid’s shoulder while they were trying to figure out which toy to buy and it’s,

Mari Collins Harris:
Oh my gosh.

Bob Wheeler:
you know, and you’re being honest going, okay, at a certain point, I’m bored out of my mind, pick a fricking toy, right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Exactly,

Bob Wheeler:
And,

Mari Collins Harris:
yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
and, you know, creating that safe space for them to be able to shop, compare and start to learn without having to take on. parents energy because a lot of parents, I know many parents don’t talk about this stuff because they weren’t taught. So they think it’s just better to not say a word. Whereas I think it’s better to say a word, even if you don’t know everything to at least start having these conversations to normalize.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I totally agree. But there is like, there’s the right amount of words to say, because I am a person who tends to say too many words. So when I was looking over my child’s shoulder while he was on Amazon, not only was I like concerned because he signed into my Amazon account, but I was also like, Oh, that one’s made in China.

That one’s got cheap materials. That one’s too expensive, like coaching him and being this bug in his ear and not letting him make his own decisions and not letting him like learn from those mistakes because as much as I want to guide him to make the quote unquote right decision, it’s not going to happen if he doesn’t go through those wrong ones and hopefully low stakes early on mistakes.

Bob Wheeler:
That’s right, you’ve got to give them the guide rails, you know, they’ve got

Mari Collins Harris:
Uh huh,

Bob Wheeler:
to

Mari Collins Harris:
uh huh.

Bob Wheeler:
They don’t completely crash and burn. What are some of the other lessons that you hope? Kids will learn from this app

Mari Collins Harris:
Well, honestly, the ability to make mistakes in a safe environment is a huge reason why Ketchup works. You don’t want your child to be an 18 year old who’s never once made their own financial decisions. And the first thing they do when they have a credit card is go buy an expensive car that they can’t afford the car payments for.

So it’s better for these kids to be able to make decisions along the way that get increasingly more impactful. And you know, at a younger child’s age, it might be, you know, buying a RC car or like a toy helicopter that breaks. It’s like, ah, dang it! Like, I wish I’d spent my money differently or I wish I’d bought the nicer version.

Whatever the lesson is that they take from that, they might not make that same mistake again, or they might have to make it a few times, but it’s not as high stakes as going into debt as an adult. And that’s what we’re hoping to teach is… that your financial decisions make a difference in your life, not just in that moment, but further down the line.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. And that’s, no, and I think that’s awesome. And I’m wondering the other piece for parents may be to hold the boundary when they do make bad mistakes or make mistakes that aren’t the best. You know, I was, I have a friend who let their kids start buying their school clothes and they would get a certain amount, right? And

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
one kid’s like, I’m going to buy a pair of fancy, cool shoes. Now I don’t have any pants or shirts for the rest of the season. And then mom and dad being able to say, you chose the shoes. We’re not going to supplement

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
the pants and the shirts. You’re just going to have to hope that people give us up stuff to you for your birthday or something, right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
And

Mari Collins Harris:
it’s

Bob Wheeler:
then

Mari Collins Harris:
like

Bob Wheeler:
hold

Mari Collins Harris:
you wanted

Bob Wheeler:
that boundary.

Mari Collins Harris:
to ask for a toy, but now you have to ask for a jacket because it’s getting cold. Yeah, I started using Ketchup in the same way because my children were not being responsible with the things that I had bought them. So, you know, we live in a cold climate, so they need mittens, they need hats, they need all these little things that they take off once they get to school.

And then who knows where they go. They just float off into the ether. So… um after my eldest had lost maybe his fifth or sixth pair of mittens i was like all right you are gonna buy your own mittens so i let him shop around um he spent his own money on it and he ended up choosing a pair that i would have never bought they were like flashy um but they’re the last pair of mittens we’ve had to buy because he used his own money he felt the sacrifice and they were identifiable so um

These mittens have lasted almost a year now. I mean, it’s summer, so haven’t used them much lately, but the difference between something that a child invested in rather than was given is

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
huge. And the way they respect that item is also huge.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I think that’s so, I mean that’s such an important skill and you do have more care when it’s your money.

Mari Collins Harris:
sure.

Bob Wheeler:
Because it’s just easy to go, oh yeah, mom and dad will fix that. Mom and dad will fix. Ah, at some point mom and dad won’t. So

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
good to learn that early on. Budgeting is something that I don’t think at any age people love, most people don’t love to sit down and budget. Um, I’m in accounting and I love to do budgets, but even my own, sometimes I’m, uh, do I have to do it today? Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
How, um, how do you teach budgeting to kids to make it fun and relatable? Is there a way to do that?

Mari Collins Harris:
I mean, it depends on the age of the child. Obviously, once they get older, you can give them prepaid debit cards. There’s a couple apps like Greenlight, Rooster Money if you’re in the UK. But for younger kids, it’s been pretty much like put pennies into a jar. And I found that if you give a child money, first of all, they’re gonna lose it. They’re not gonna have it when they need it, which is like, there’s a bake sale down the street. Where’d my dollar go?

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
But also if they have two dollars in hand, they’re thinking in terms of where can I spend this two dollars? As opposed to if they have two dollars in an account, they can think, oh, I’m two dollars closer to reaching my goal. And so priming them to think in terms of reaching a goal rather than like blasting through their cash is super important. So one thing on catch up we do is we let children set a goal.

Just one. that they can work up to and see their progress towards that goal. For example, my son today got his bike. He bought it himself. It was a very expensive bike. So we funded part of it and he was responsible for reaching that other portion. But he worked hard. We paid him for chores and it took him four months.

But he bought his own bike and super excited, super proud of himself. He’s like. oiling and polishing it and taking care of it, which I love to see because the last one was left out in the rain. So

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
yeah, I think in answer to your question, I think a lot of the importance of teaching kids is teaching them early

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
and age appropriate lessons.

Bob Wheeler:
And I love that you participated in the purchase of the bike, right? He had to set a goal and he had to meet his obligation. And then you came in and said, if you meet your obligation, we’ll cover the rest. So now there’s a joint investment. emotionally as well as financially.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah. And honestly, like we bought the bike ahead of time because it was on sale and so it had to hide in our basement for a while. So we were really like, we need to find chores for you to do so that you can meet your goals. But you know, he was working hard mowing lawns, painted rooms, all sorts of stuff.

And we, my husband and I pay like the… skimpiest allowances to our kids just so that they get used to having like an income that’s expected. It’s like three dollars a week, not much,

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
but we pay very handsomely for chores because we want to incentivize that mindset of work towards something.

Bob Wheeler:
I love the intentionality and I’m wondering if you have any advice for parents how to be more intentional, right? Because sometimes you got kids screaming, you’ve got adult chores that got to be managed and sometimes conscious parenting takes a lot. Like it takes

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
some effort. And so are there any tips you could offer? Because I know there are people out there saying, I don’t like screaming at my kid or Conscious in helping them, you know think about mindset and all that stuff and I’d love that you’re Placing a value on they get paid more for chores These are the things so that you get to impart your values Are there are there any tips you could give parents to just help them feel like? Throw me a lifeline

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I still scream at my kids. I’m not proud of it, and I apologize when I do, but I’m not a perfect parent. I’m a person with reactions who needs space sometimes. But I think the best thing that I’ve learned from my experience is setting up a framework in those quiet moments when you aren’t stressed out, when your kid isn’t screaming at you, when you haven’t had your cup of coffee.

Like… Find that quiet time and figure out what matters to your family and how do you want to prioritize that? For my family, we want to prioritize hard work. We want to prioritize taking care of themselves. And so with Ketchup, we are able to say, okay, we will approve certain types of items.

We will allow you to spend your money how you please, if you can afford those things. And the rest is up to you. So in that sense, we don’t have to… have that moment of can I have it, is it appropriate, and in the moment having to make that snap decision, it’s already been decided in the quiet moment. So when there is too much noise in your head, you can fall back on the system that you’ve already set up.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I love that because we don’t always have the quiet moments and kids do need consistency in that. Okay, these are the parameters versus, oh, today the sky is blue. The answer is no.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. Cause that’s, I, in my childhood, that’s the way it operated. Um, and you were, and it didn’t, and if it was a blue sky day, that didn’t always mean you got the same, um, answer. Right? So it

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
was, it was difficult guessing how to play

Mari Collins Harris:
the

Bob Wheeler:
the

Mari Collins Harris:
because

Bob Wheeler:
game.

Mari Collins Harris:
I said so era. I remember my parents, I’d say, why, why can’t I? It’s because I said so. And so that doesn’t give me any insight as to why. So I keep asking, I’m like, well, what about now? What about now? What about this? And that just stresses parents out. It’s awful to have your child questioning you all the time about the same thing over and over and over.

But if you say, okay, these are the type of products that are okay in our family. You might not want Toys that require batteries. Or maybe you don’t want violent content. Or maybe you want gender neutral stuff. Whatever

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
is right for your family, you can set up those parameters early on, and then your child can look through and figure out like, okay, this fits or it doesn’t fit.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And in today’s world with all the technology, how do you manage battling like screen time cell phones and iPads with money management showing up and being present. How do you manage that?

Mari Collins Harris:
Oh man, it’s funny because, you know, my husband and I created Ketchup, which is an app which requires some screen time, but we also are very restrictive when it comes to screen time. Like, our children don’t have their own devices, they don’t have their own iPads.

We have some old beater phones that we bring for like long car rides or airplane rides and like we’ll watch movies together. But besides that, we let our children use our phone for… buying things on Ketchup, shopping around, adding things that they’re interested in.

But personally, I’m pretty restrictive, but I’m trying to loosen the reins a little bit because I’ve been reading more and more studies about how gaming, like certain types of gaming, but gaming and certain types of social media can be beneficial for kids as they get older. But it’s such a tricky line to toe because there’s no real research that lasts for a long time. for decades, it’s only like, well, this has been around for five years, so let’s see what happens to these kids in the future.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, now that’s great. I mean, and you’re having to keep up with, I mean, technology is changing and changing and changing. So You also have to be up on it, because sometimes

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
the kids are up on it more than the adults.

Mari Collins Harris:
Oh yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
I just find the six-year-old when I need stuff fixed. I’m

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
like,

Mari Collins Harris:
the

Bob Wheeler:
ah.

Mari Collins Harris:
digital natives, they’re out of control. They are so fast at picking things up.

Bob Wheeler:
For sure, for sure. Well, Mari, we’re going to take just a moment to test your nerve.

Mari Collins Harris:
Okay.

Bob Wheeler:
Test Your Nerve is brought to you by TheMoneyNerve.com. Your money problems need a hero, so grab your cape and fly over to TestYourNerve.com for financial solutions and a free quiz. Be your own financial hero. All right, here we go. What’s the most embarrassed you’ve been by one of your kids maybe having a public tantrum? over a buying decision.

Mari Collins Harris:
Whoo! I think, God, there’s so many.

Bob Wheeler:
Hahaha

Mari Collins Harris:
I think, so we went to Walmart once and we were there for like, I don’t know, emergency toilet paper or something like necessary. And the kids wandered into the toys aisle and it’s just like, it’s madness there. They can reach everything, they can touch everything.

I’m trying to be respectful, even though it’s like a big box store, I’m still like, okay, everything needs to go back where it belongs, like, oh, don’t put your mouth on that! And there’s three of them, so by the time you catch one or two, the other one’s sped away. And so I lost my cool.

It wasn’t necessarily kids being obnoxious and temper tantruming, it was me being like, oh my god, I gotta get out of here now! Like leave the toilet paper, grab the children, we’re getting out of here, this is a nightmare. So yeah, my embarrassment is my own, not my children’s.

Bob Wheeler:
You know, that’s funny you say that because I’ve seen some situations and it was actually the parents that lost it. I didn’t even

Mari Collins Harris:
It’s

Bob Wheeler:
think

Mari Collins Harris:
embarrassing.

Bob Wheeler:
about it. Yeah. Because it’s a stressful situation and I think especially if, like you said, from the era of because I told you so, and kids want to know, like they’re asking questions, I want the toy and if…

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
It’s overwhelming. So I love that.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
I love

Mari Collins Harris:
it’s

Bob Wheeler:
that.

Mari Collins Harris:
like a sugar rush for kids to be in a store with a thousand toys.

Bob Wheeler:
Absolutely. What money mistakes have you made in your own life that you hope Ketchup will help kids avoid?

Mari Collins Harris:
So I think one thing that I’m still working on is realizing that just because it’s a good deal, it doesn’t mean it’s a good purchase. So an example of this is I remember when I was maybe like 11 or so, I was old enough to start walking to stores and stuff from my parents’ house.

And I had $5 and there was a candy shop going on. They were like closing out. And so with the $5 I bought pretty much their whole inventory of Sour Patch Kids. It was like a giant industrial sized box. And I took it home. My parents didn’t know about it because it was my money, my walk. And I ate the whole thing in like a week and was

Bob Wheeler:
Oh.

Mari Collins Harris:
so, so sick. And I’m like, okay, so hopefully with some parental guidelines. Kids can learn to make those decisions, make those mistakes, but also hopefully learn from them because a great deal is sometimes a bad choice.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. I love that. Uh, have you ever hidden a purchase from your spouse and what was it?

Mari Collins Harris:
I don’t shop a lot, to be honest. And when I do, it’s like the things that I buy, he doesn’t care about or notice. So

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
yeah, I feel like if I buy anything, it’s mainly for the house or for the kids or for, I

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
don’t know. I’m not much of a shopper, so I’m going to go with no.

Bob Wheeler:
Okay. Now I’m yeah, I’m not much of a shop breather. So, uh, what was your, what was your worst purchase regret?

Mari Collins Harris:
I bought a giant piece of land that I was really excited about. It was totally a purchase with your heart and not your head. It was 18 acres on the California coastline and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing and like we can afford it and how is this even possible? It’s too good to be true, but you know, we’ll build our family compound. And I had all these big dreams.

And then as time went on, it was like, oh, we could afford it because you can’t get water service to there. There’s like invasive plants and animals. There’s like a protected snail. There’s like buried bombs from World War II. And it was just all of these things. Not

Bob Wheeler:
Wow.

Mari Collins Harris:
to mention we have three kids. We live like eight hours away. So it was one of those purchases where. we held it for a year and then eventually we’re like, all right, maybe this dream is not for us, maybe it’s for someone else. So we had to move on from that one, but my heart’s still there.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that’s a bummer because I would be excited about 18 of acres

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
on the California

Mari Collins Harris:
Oh my gosh.

Bob Wheeler:
coast. Are you kidding?

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, it was amazing. It was too good to be true because it was too good to be true.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. There’s some properties in Topanga like that, or I think, oh, that, oh, you can’t build. Oh, it’s just rocks.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, yeah, that’s what happened to me. We broke, we did okay. We did slightly better than breaking even, but it was a heartbreak to

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Mari Collins Harris:
give the dream up.

Bob Wheeler:
yeah, for sure, for sure. Would you let your kids make a risky stock market investment in their catch up with their catch up money?

Mari Collins Harris:
Hmm. Well currently we don’t let children do stocks on Ketchup, so

Bob Wheeler:
Okay.

Mari Collins Harris:
I’m going to say no. But, yes, I would. If we do add that functionality in the future, which is something we’ve considered, I would. It’s their money and I think learning that losing money in the stocks is painful. doing it at a young age when you still have a roof over your head is better than gambling it all away later. So yes,

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
or maybe they’ll make a ton of money and we’ll all be rich as we can be.

Bob Wheeler:
And I think it’s different for everybody. Some people like spending money on real estate. Some people like spending money in the stock market. Some people love crypto. For me, I think it’s important to go with your comfort level to a degree. I mean, it’s OK to get out of your comfort zone.

I think it’s important sometimes to get out of your comfort zone. If you’re not comfortable with crypto, don’t go spend a whole bunch of money in crypto. Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
Don’t just do it because everybody else is doing it. Um, like, you know, get information. And I think what catch up is doing is really offering, um, options and opportunities to do things in a safe environment, um, so that when you go out in the real world, you’ve now got some of these skills.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, we do allow kids to donate to charities through Ket Shop. So we have like a save, spend, give concept. And the give, it’s interesting because my two older kids are now competing with each other to see who’s donated more to charities. And it makes me so proud. I’m like,

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
oh my gosh, you’re saving the ocean and you’re like championing orphanages. And it’s just it’s really heartwarming to see like six and eight year olds wanting. to do charitable giving.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, that I think that’s awesome. Do you have like a ratio 50% needs, 30% give, 20% wants? Is it everybody’s own personal choice, but do you personally?

Mari Collins Harris:
It’s more personal choice, yeah. I think at this point it’s kind of one bucket that you as a parent can designate, like you need to give a certain amount to each cause. But in our home, we try and designate like 10% for charity and then we fulfill our needs first and then wants.

So for example, like the mittens, like you can’t buy anything else until you buy the mittens. So. my child tries to check out on a stuffed animal, I’m not gonna accept that. I’m gonna decline that transaction and say, no, not until you’ve met all of your needs.

Bob Wheeler:
I have had some people talk about that they, when their kids get money, they charge a 5% mommy fee or a 5% parent fee. for, you know, overhead.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
Any thoughts on that?

Mari Collins Harris:
like taxes.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
I think, again, it’s like how your family functions. And

Bob Wheeler:
Mm-hmm.

Mari Collins Harris:
I think teaching those, like whenever you make a transaction, there is gonna be a little like nip off the top. I think that’s a great idea. We’ve actually talked about doing a system where you can like disincentivize certain purchases. So for example, like, yeah, you can buy Snickers candy bar, but it’s gonna cost you $12, you know, and so Like it might only be a $2 candy bar, but there’s a $10 tax on it.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Um we played with that idea a lot but Haven’t haven’t made it so because it was a technical nightmare. Um,

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Mari Collins Harris:
but

Bob Wheeler:
yeah, for sure.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I mean it’s the same like we incentivize the bike purchase because there’s no way my kid would be able to reach that goal in the world we live in, but then disincentivize other things.

Bob Wheeler:
Now that makes sense. And you know, in the app, Ketshop prioritizes purchases and delaying gratification. These are key skills. How do you ensure that the app incentivizes savings over spending and prioritizing needs versus wants? Is that part of the conversation?

Mari Collins Harris:
Certainly, yeah. I think a lot of that happens between parent and child. A need versus want can change family to family. So, you know, something that I feel is a want, like I want a car. It might be someone else needs a car. So that infrastructure is set by the family, but in order to… keep children on track towards saving, we do have like a savings goal.

So the child can see like how close they are to achieving that goal. But along the way, if they go off track, it will show like you’ve slid backwards and you’re not making forward progress anymore. So most of the savings is geared towards an end goal, which I guess all savings is because whether your end goal is retirement, buying a car. emergency funds like you’re always saving for something.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah. And how do you ensure to cater the experience to the different age levels, right? Because a five-year-old may not have quite the depth of understanding around finances that a 15-year-old might.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, well, we keep the app super simple. We are aiming it towards younger users because by the time they’re 15, they’re kinda out in the world and a lot more independent. You can’t really put as much control around their experience because they might have a job. They can do what they want with their money.

We are aiming to educate a younger group that is underserved at this age, which is like, elementary school kids. So our target audience is somewhere between like five, maybe four if your kid’s like a genius, but five to like eleven or twelve and that’s kind of our sweet spot. So a lot of the interface is it has like pictures, it has bar charts, it has a lot of like visual stimulation so that even pre-readers can understand what’s going on.

And then at the same time, like if a kid makes a mistake and purchases something that is inappropriate or they can’t, that their family says, not a good idea, there’s always that parent break where a parent has to confirm or deny a purchase. So there’s no accidental like trampolines showing up at your apartment.

Bob Wheeler:
Exactly. No, I mean, I think that’s so important. And that age group feels like a very important age group to target. Uh, personally, I believe we learn all that stuff when we’re four, five, six, and seven, and so

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
if we’re not getting the fundamental, uh, core teachings at that age, it’s going to be harder. A little bit later on, not that

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
it can’t be learned, but it feels so important to get in there early.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I mean, once you reach middle school, you’re looking towards your peers instead of your parents. And so you want the fancy sneakers and the designer handbags and whatever your peers have. It’s this sweet spot of like you’re not a baby, but you still spend most of your time with your family where like parents can have the most influence on their kids.

And so that’s where we’re targeting because right now most financial um, financial apps out there are either using play money that has no real value in the world

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
or they’re geared towards older kids. And so there isn’t really another way that young kids can have financial autonomy at that age.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, and I think it’s so important to make it a little bit fun. It doesn’t have to be the most fun. I mean, a water

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
park or a candy bar might be more fun, but to start at least having these conversations so that they can feel empowered and feel like they have choice and that they can learn to make decisions, make mistakes. and still be okay.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, yeah. We’ve recently added a feature where parents or children can add custom items to the shop. So whether that’s like we want to go to Disneyland, like you can’t add that to the shop unless it’s very custom or it’s like we had a bunch of horse enthusiasts who wanted very specific saddles.

So you can create a very custom experience or item and work towards that, which I think is great because it’s not always something. physical that

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
arrives in the mail. It might be, I’ll take you and your five best friends out for pizza. So being able to put value on things that aren’t necessarily like physical items that you’re owning.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Do you have any words of wisdom or top money tips for our listeners who are parents and want to teach their kids financial literacy? And the reason I asked this, well, lots of reasons, but even you talked about I didn’t get taught certain things as a kid.

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
you still went ahead and tried to teach your kids. Some people just shut down and they’re like, I didn’t learn anything. I’m not gonna teach anything. And so I know there are people out there and mostly out of fear or not

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
wanting their kids to think they’re dumb. And so I think like what you’re doing is important. I’m just wondering if you have some tips out there for the parents that are like, yeah, I want to do more.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I think honestly one of the best teaching tools I’ve found for my kids is like sharing my own failures with them, like I am not a financial expert. I’m not a CPA, I’m not a financial advisor. And so I’m learning along the way too. And not just about finance, but about like building technology and marketing.

And so sharing all of these. experiences and showing that I’m still learning, I’m still working on it, I don’t have all the answers. They, you know, they see me struggling and I don’t hide that from them. So they can see that like, oh, you don’t just like grow up and know everything. It’s kind of a lifelong learning process. And then they just absolutely love every story of my failures,

Bob Wheeler:
Hahaha!

Mari Collins Harris:
especially from when I’m a kid. I have like, I try and remember them. I’m like, oh, yeah. Well, I chased after an ice cream truck barefoot and I busted open my toe and it bled for two days. So always wear shoes. And they just like, they eat that up and they learn from it. Like, they’re like, you gotta run with shoes. Yes, because your toes.

But yeah, sharing your failures, sharing your insecurities, you know, obviously you don’t wanna like. share everything and let them

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
know like, oh, we’re financially insecure, or oh, I’m like insecure with my body. You wanna like tailor it to what’s appropriate to the kids, but

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
I think it’s important to let them know that you’re not perfect and you’re working on it.

Bob Wheeler:
I think that’s so important and I’m wondering, do you have family meetings where the kids are involved in conversations around money? Or is that? Yeah, I’m just curious.

Mari Collins Harris:
You know, we are a motley crew of ages. And so trying to sit down a three-year-old and an eight-year-old and a six-year-old and have like a financial meeting has not been possible. We’re very much, I call them three feral children because they’re just like biting each other and rolling around and you know, we’re not quite there yet. But I think by the time my youngest is maybe six or seven I think we could incorporate something with.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, but to your point, which I really appreciate is, and I was thinking about this, it’s good to talk to with kids about money, but it’s not great to tell them, I don’t know how we’re going to pay for our housing. Oh, my God, I’m so worried we’re going to file bankruptcy. Right. We don’t want to we don’t want to instill fear in them.

Mari Collins Harris:
What’s that?

Bob Wheeler:
We want to give them information. Well, maybe that’s not something that we can afford to do at this time, or that’s

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
not in alignment with our values. You don’t need to take your own. real situation that might be happening and throw that onto the responsibility of the child.

Mari Collins Harris:
Exactly, yeah, I’m totally with you. If you are in a precarious financial position, I don’t think that’s something that your children need to know about in detail. They might need to know like we save a lot and we’re very careful with our money because we don’t have a lot of it. But like anything more than that can be distressing for kids. So yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah,

Mari Collins Harris:
I’m with you.

Bob Wheeler:
absolutely. Well, Mario, we are at the M&M moment of the show, the sweet spot, money and motivation. I’m wondering if you have a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom you could share with our listeners.

Mari Collins Harris:
Hmm, um… I would say that I think one of the biggest financial growth areas we’ve had in our home is the idea of everyone working towards something together. And it’s really challenging when you have young kids because they’re only thinking about themselves like, I want, I want, I want.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
But we have like a chore chart. and each kid has the things that they need to do and they aren’t going to get paid for it. But then we also have an alternate chart that has like, okay, if you mow the lawn, it’s seven dollars. If you rake the leaves, it’s eight dollars, whatever those chores are. But

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
being able to create a structure where finances for kids, like kid finances, are understood by all and expected. It’s not how much Will I get for this? I know how much I’ll get for this and I will choose to do it because I want it.

Bob Wheeler:
Right.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I think taking away the mystery around money is super important for raising financially secure children.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And you know, really what we’ve been talking about a lot throughout this conversation or my takeaway is, is the intentionality piece. uh, getting intentional, being able to bring in your own values, um, and, and helping your kids make choices, giving them the freedom to figure out how they want to spend, where they want to spend, and also bringing in your own values, being able to say why instead of, because

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
I said so,

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
uh, and really willing to teach your kids about money, even though you don’t have all the answers. And I really. really think it’s so important to let kids and let other people know, here’s the places where I didn’t do so well, and I still survived. Right? But you can learn from this.

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
And so many times, I think, at least historically or in my own parents, they wanted it to look like, you know, hey, we have it all figured out. And they didn’t. And I knew it. Like,

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
because they just

Mari Collins Harris:
you

Bob Wheeler:
didn’t

Mari Collins Harris:
can’t

Bob Wheeler:
know.

Mari Collins Harris:
hide it.

Bob Wheeler:
You can’t hide it. And I think had they been a little more forthcoming, that easier for me to realize, oh, I don’t have to magically make it work. Because I was waiting for that moment when I would just, everything would click in. Um, and I

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah,

Bob Wheeler:
just,

Mari Collins Harris:
like when

Bob Wheeler:
I’m

Mari Collins Harris:
am I a grown-up? I’ve been waiting. It’s not

Bob Wheeler:
waiting,

Mari Collins Harris:
happening.

Bob Wheeler:
I’m waiting. I think that’s partly why I became a CPA. I wanted to understand how it all worked because

Mari Collins Harris:
Mm-hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
we, it was a free for all, uh, in my parents, you know, and it wasn’t their fault. Like they didn’t know. It wasn’t like they intentionally said, let’s not teach them. They didn’t know. And I think that’s the important thing. Most parents didn’t get the download either. It doesn’t mean you can’t keep your kids from learning and actually getting more information than you did.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, and honestly, like teaching kids about finance is easy. You know, like you don’t have to be a CPA. You don’t have to know all about stocks and exchange rates and everything. Like just start small, like income output, that kind of thing. Like that seems so basic, but I think a lot of kids don’t get that because they never have the chance to experience it. They have everything purchased for them.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah.

Mari Collins Harris:
And they never see the true value of the things that are in their life.

Bob Wheeler:
Yeah, and there’s so much freedom in that. I have a couple clients that their parents did everything for them that even in their 50s, mom and dad were still taking their paychecks. Yeah. And so when their parents died in their 90s, these kids, at 55 and 60 were completely lost because

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah.

Bob Wheeler:
they had never actually done adult things their entire

Mari Collins Harris:
Hmm.

Bob Wheeler:
life. So

Mari Collins Harris:
Well, I’ll take their paychecks for

Bob Wheeler:
yeah,

Mari Collins Harris:
them.

Bob Wheeler:
exactly.

Mari Collins Harris:
It’s okay.

Bob Wheeler:
I’ll send them over your way.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, I’ll help them out.

Bob Wheeler:
No, that’s awesome. Well, Mari, where can people find you online? Where can they find the app? All that good stuff on the internet.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, you can find the app at www.ketchup.com. Plenty of information, some blog posts, that kind of thing. We’re also on Instagram and Facebook as Ketchup.app. That’s K-E-T-S-H-O-P, like ketchup the condiment, but Ketchup.

Bob Wheeler:
And like I said, pet shop, cat shop, it’s for kids.

Mari Collins Harris:
Yeah, yeah, it’s funny because I always thought of it as ketchup because ketchup is this like bridge from baby safe food to adult food. Like as you start introducing adult food, you put the ketchup on it to make it more palatable to kids. So we are that service for becoming an adult shopper.

Bob Wheeler:
I love it. I love it. Well, Mari, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time and thank you for helping kids learn financial literacy because the world’s a better place when everybody gets intentional with their money and makes great choices.

Mari Collins Harris:
Thank you so much, Bob. It was so much fun talking with you.

Bob Wheeler:
Well, thank you.