Talking With Your Money. Dr. Joe Burns

Bob Wheeler: Welcome to another episode of money you should ask where everyone has something they can teach you. I’m your host, Bob Wheeler. In this episode, we are going to explore why we do what we do when it comes to money as a CPA for the past 30 years. Wait, let me say 25, because that makes me sound younger. I have seen it all when it comes to money and emotions.

And if you think I’m talking about my clients, I’m not. I’m talking about myself. My relationship with money has been, and sometimes still is an emotional roller coaster. Maybe that’s something you’re also familiar with. Good news. You and I are not the only ones. Our next guest is going to share their money, beliefs, money blocks, and life challenges as well.

Buckle your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

Our next guest is Dr. Joe Burns in 2009. Dr. Joe was faced with his wife, lost in PTSD bills, creditors closing in and a house in foreclosure. He thought if only he made more money, his problems would be solved. However, after changing jobs and making over a hundred thousand a year, he realized money was never the problem.

His mindset was now. He helps entrepreneurs unlock access to the answers inside them by disrupting their money mindset, raising their money, EQ and making money, their best friend. Welcome to the show Dr. Joe. 

Joe Burns: Thanks, Bob. Excited to be here. 

Bob Wheeler: Yeah, well, let’s just start right off the bat. Cuz a lot of people might be thinking, Bob, you should have said IQ money IQ.

Talk to us about money EQ, which is an assessment. If I have this right of how healthy your emotional relationship is 

Joe Burns: with money. You know, when I first started my business, everybody learned, I was talking about money and they’re like, Hey, can you help me with my budgets or investments or something like that?

I’m like, that’s kind of like IQ part, right. Where we use our brains to like, go do something with money smart. Right. The EQ side’s more emotionally, like, how do we feel about it? Nobody’s asking these questions. Right? How do we feel about money? How do we respond to it when it shows up in our lives? And so I like talking more about that because it’s way more impactful than trying to figure out the stock market or investments or things like that.

There’s really smart people out there that do that full time. That can help you. Yep. But in our everyday life and how we interact us money and how we’re showing up, it’s affecting us way more on emotional level than what we’re giving get credit for. Mostly because we’ve never been top. Yeah. Nobody’s ever challenged and said, Hey, what’s your money, EQ.

How do you feel about this? It’s just a paper. Like it does something for us. I really like diving in on that side because it really disrupts people’s brains. When I start asking ’em how they feel about their money, you know, when the thing’s happen. 

Bob Wheeler: And how did you first notice that? Like, for me, I would sit down with tax clients and then they would go out and do the exact opposite of what I suggested that they do.

And so I had to get in touch with what’s going on for you emotionally. So that was really pretty clear for you. How did you make that connection? Was it first your own personal experience? Did somebody bring that awareness to you and you had a mindset disruption. How did you discover this component? I think 

Joe Burns: for me, it really is back to, you know, like you read my bio, the 2008, 2009.

With my wife and the PTSD and all the craziness that surrounds that part of my story. It led us down to going from a one income or a two income family, and we don’t have children. So everybody’s like the perfect storm, right? No kids and two incomes to where one income and a lot of new medical bills and right.

Things like that. And just how I had to handle our finances. We moved across the country. During that time I got a raise, but we moved from Utah to Maryland. So I really didn’t get a raise because cost of living is way different, which I was naive enough not to realize that. Right. We’re just trying to get away from a bad situation into something new.

And I was soon faced with trying to figure out how to pay bills. I couldn’t pay anymore and trying to make the math work on paper and it wasn’t working and it was wrecking me inside. Yeah. Right. And part of that, part of the story you read when I moved out there, I wasn’t making a hundred thousand, but within a couple years I was.

And one thing that really kind of woke me up is that I was making a hundred, 6,000 at a corporate job. Uh, my background was it so lots of money in it used my brain for really smart things. But my bills were such that I had to go to my local church for help. Yeah. And I’m like, Hey, is there anything you guys can help me out with?

And it was just like this inside that just wrecked me. Like, I’m like, I make a hundred thousand dollars a year. I should have no problems. Right, right. Cause that’s what everybody told me, but yet I’m going to my church for help with food so I can feed my family. Yeah. Like this doesn’t make sense. My brain.

So I had like this whole internal struggle about that number doesn’t mean what I thought that number meant anymore. 

Bob Wheeler: Yeah. Well, let me ask you this and maybe it didn’t, maybe it did, but I would imagine if I’m thinking that I’m making a hundred, 6,000 and I should have it made. And I’m having to go to my church and ask for help, even though I’m usually looking for my church to help other people, there might be some internal shame.

Oh, yeah. 

Joe Burns: Shame, guilt. Like, can I really go there and ask them? Right. And they asked all the questions, like, what can we help you with all that fun stuff? And, and just had to be real open and honest about where we were at. And it’s so hard because our whole lives were taught about our finances that you don’t talk to.

Other people about it, even talking to your financial advisors is for a lot of people hard because they’re like, oh, they get, see all the internal workings of like what my bank account looks like. You know, credit I have how much debt I have, what my net worth is about. Like these numbers impact. And so when we’re in need and need some help from other people, there’s a lot of shame and guilt that happens.

Right. And I didn’t like that. Like, it didn’t feel good to me. Right. And so I kind of worked through that. And then a few years later I met a personal development coach that helped me see the other side of me. Yeah. And it really opened up a lot of stuff. And then I, I don’t know, through happenstance in some cases, because I was going through all the money stuff and going through all that financial kind of ruin, I didn’t put two and two together.

Right. I’m just like, I gotta get through this. I just have to make it to the other end. We lost a house during the process and all the shame and guilt around them telling my credit score was gonna be horrible. And you’re a horrible person cuz you can’t pay this, like all this stuff that happens at society.

Yeah. Right. That’s horrible. It’s horrible. It was. And my credit score was good. I was like 7 27 50 and it dropped like 500 overnight. right now, the plus side. Again, I’m not on a financial guy to tell you like this kind of financial thing, so don’t go on me. But within two years I had built it back to like 700 after the foreclosure.

Yeah. It’s the number, right. It tells things, but how we feel on the insight. So anyway, I met this personal development coach and then I, like, I just felt this affinity to be able to apply the personal development principles yeah. To money and how we interact with it. And that’s kind of how my business was born.

Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And I think there’s a misnomer that if I’m sort of. Making money or appearing to be making money, right. I’m not making 20,000 a year. I’m in a good professional job. Maybe I’ve got a college degree. I shouldn’t need any help. And I should just have it all dialed in through osmosis, I guess, because my parents didn’t know anything about money.

God bless them. They just didn’t know. So it wasn’t like, they were like, hold this information from Bob. Yeah. Right. like nobody’s parents are out there going withhold, withhold. Let’s see what they do. No, they’re not, they’re 

Joe Burns: doing the best they can. And that’s the problem they are. They’re trying. Right.

They’re doing that. And us as children, right. We learned so much as children just through like watching and then replicating. Right. And that’s what we’re doing with our money. We see that. Cause I remember in my household growing. Many tense conversations, like after we had went to bed, but were still awake right.

Between my parents. So me getting married and, and growing up, I’m like, okay. So any times I have conversations with my wife has gotta be like a flinch Fest. Right. We’re just like, what’s gonna come out next. How’s this gonna be like an argument? So we just kind of avoid it. Right. Cause I wanna argue with my new wife, right.

So we’re just like gonna kind of avoid the money conversation and kind of have ’em so we can pay our bills and feed ourselves. But outside of that, we’re not gonna really talk about it and it wasn’t healthy. So there had to be a different way and it took a while to get there for us. My wife bless her heart.

She always like made sure we had a budget cuz she grew up in a very disruptive household when it came to finances. Right. Her parents were running from creditors and hiding cars behind fences, stuff like that. Right. So she didn’t wanna go there. Right. And then she’s way smarter than me. So she’s like, I’m not going back there.

Right. So we need to do something different. So our finances have always been pretty good, but again, there’s still always been that emotional side that we never challenged ourselves until we were like into our thirties. Like it was a long time being married when we finally kind of figured out the rhythm.

Bob Wheeler: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is this belief that conversations with spouses partners, children has to be a fight, like let’s get prepared to get angry. And so I really try to work with people to neutralize the conversation, teach people to when it gets heated to say, Hey, let’s take a five minute break.

let’s that’s good. Let’s dance. Let’s breathe. Let’s do something other than continue this conversation until we can take the charge. And then come back. It’s amazing, like hearing you talk about your wife saying she had a budget, so she wouldn’t go back. So in a way, fear was driving her to keep her from sliding backwards and.

I think there’s a lot of people that are operating from fear. I think fear is one of the biggest emotional components of money, whether it’s fear of not having enough fear of having too much fear of being judged, fear of having to set healthy boundaries or saying no, like there’s so much fear when it comes to this stuff.

And then the fear of just not knowing am I doing it right? Cause yeah, I didn’t take a course and I didn’t get an a right there. Isn’t a. So the more we can neutralize and help people to understand that they’re just conversations. And if you can set up the parameters to have a healthy conversation so that you don’t take each other out and make it personal or keep a history book of, remember that time 27 years ago, right?

Yeah. To just like, let it be okay. And move on yeah, 

Joe Burns: it is what it is. And let’s not like that fear and the shame and all that stuff that we’ve lived with. Well, let’s not incorporate, let’s try to get that outta the conversation because then we can come to a solution that will work for everybody quicker.

Right? Yeah. 

Bob Wheeler: And. I wanna ask you about this piece, because I know it was true for me as well, and I still fight it sometimes. Oh, if I have money, I can solve everything. Yeah. If I just have another or, oh, I’m having an argument with somebody or an employee is unha here. Let me just give you some money and then I don’t have to have a conversation.

Yep. So money helped me avoid. When I finally had it, money helped me avoid difficult conversations because it was easier to just throw money at it. And then if I’m doing the money, I get to call the shots. And so then in a way I can use money to manipulate, even if it’s unconsciously. Yep. Because I have the power and when I didn’t have the money, I didn’t have the power and it’s not quite so black and white, like.

No, 

Joe Burns: not at all. Right. And that’s why one of my mantras and some of my clients, you, my wife hates it. When I say this, cuz we’ll get in these conversations. Like if I just had more money, I’m like, hold on. It’s never about the money. Right. So what is it about mm-hmm because money won’t solve, we could have a billion dollars and it still won’t solve the problems.

Right. Right. And I tell people to solve the time. Like if you look at people with large windfalls, right. Lottery winners, a big inheritance stuff, there’s statistics out there on the internet. If you go look. It’s like 70 or 75% of people who get those yeah. Are in the worst financial situation within 24 months.

So if it was just about the money, it would solve all their problems. Right. Right. Especially with the amount of money, like we’re talking like three, 400 million lottery winners who are like absolutely broke. Yeah. And homeless after like 24 months, it doesn’t make sense to me. So if it’s not about the money, what is it about?

And if we can solve for. Then that’s where the real power is. We can solve that internal conversation and that internal turmoil that’s happening. And then we come out the other side and we’re way, way we’re in a better situation than we were 

Bob Wheeler: when we started. Yeah. Well, it’s funny. I have a family member who won the lottery twice and said it was the worst thing that ever happened because they ended up.

Going into bankruptcy. All these things happened. I think what happens partially is, oh, I won $2 million. Well, you don’t have 2 million cuz you gotta pay tax . Yep. And there’s all these other things. And then people come outta the woodwork. Hey, I have this great idea. Hey, could I borrow some money? Hey, you know, all of a sudden you become the money magnet.

Joe Burns: Yeah. You know, to bank to everybody else, right? Yeah. Yeah. 

Bob Wheeler: So, oh Hey, can I get a really good gift for my kid? Uh, Hey, like all of a sudden you start to. White people are actually hanging out with you. like, is it my money? Oh, right. Yeah. It’s so hard though, to think that, oh, if I had less money, I could actually be happier.

Or if I just had this, if I just had that, the reality is it is it’s internal. It’s. Am I having a great experience. Am I in connection with people and am I trying to present or am I trying to just show up authentically? Yeah. 

Joe Burns: And that’s the thing. So I always put the caveat out there that like for a small group of people, especially in the United States, more money would help their situation.

Right. For a small group of people. For sure. But for the most people who are, you know, have decent jobs and are, you know, comfortably middle class, like money’s not the problem. It really isn’t. Yeah. It’s simply just a mirror that shows you what’s going on in your life. Right. That’s why these big winners, like it’s a mirror, right?

You’ll get rid of it. If it makes you feel uncomfortable, right. If that mirror’s showing back you what you see even subconsciously you’ll just get rid of it. So you don’t have to have it 

Bob Wheeler: anymore. Yeah, and I think most of us, and I think for the listeners out there ask yourself, what’s my comfort level. So a lot of people, I work with a lot of entertainers, their comfort level is my bank.

Account’s not overdrawn. right. some people, their comfort level is I don’t need more than 5,000 in my bank account at any time or 50,000. And I think these folks that win the lottery, or I know a lot of my clients, and I know for. For a while. Oh, that’s more money than I was expecting to have. I’m not comfortable with that.

Let me bring it back down to my comfort level. Yep. My family won’t get mad at me. My friends won’t think I’m better than them. Whatever the stories are. Mm-hmm we go right back. We find that water table level yep. 

Joe Burns: Yep. 100% 

Bob Wheeler: of there it is. There it is. And then learning to tolerate more money. When I have clients that inherit money or have a windfall, they’ll call me and go, okay, I’m gonna pay off all this.

And I’m like, no, you’re gonna sit with it for at least 30 days. And you’re just gonna look at it. Thank it. Let it sit in the, and they’re like what? I’m like, just let it sit in your bank account. That’s really uncomfortable. Yeah. Just let it sit. 

Joe Burns: It’s like, yeah. That’s the point, right? yeah, yeah. Become comfortable with it.

We’re not like, cuz we don’t we’re struggl. Like we’re not, when you look at that, the struggle is passed down, but we feel like we gotta struggle. Even we have a lot of money. Like you were saying that water table, we bring it back down to where we feel comfortable, even if that’s within the struggle. Right.

And just continue to live. Right. Because that’s what we know. There’s no unknowns anymore. We don’t know how to solve for things that are unknown. So we just like, Hey, this is kept us alive for this long. We’re just gonna keep rolling along. And 

Bob Wheeler: that’s what we’re doing with the people you work with. And I don’t ask this.

Why do we think we have to struggle? Why do we have to work really hard to get. There are some people that are like, no money can be easy and I’m just gonna let it come in. And most of us are like, no, no, no, it has to be painful. I can’t enjoy what I do to bring in the money. Must be hard. Right? Yeah.

Accounting is something that came easy to me and I always felt guilty charging people. Cause I’m like, it’s so easy. like, it’s so easy. And people are like, yeah, but yep. It’s not easy for other people. I’m like, yeah. It just feels wrong. I should have to earn my money painfully 

Joe Burns: yeah. I grew up like to date myself, I’m turned 43 this year.

So my dad is a child of depression, era parents, right? Yeah. And I think a lot of that, like that handed down struggle, that’s been passed down over generations. Some of this generational trauma that comes down, uh, surprisingly enough, most of my clientele are women of color mm-hmm so if you look at the generational trauma that’s been passed down, right?

Oh yeah. If you look at culturally, right. If you start bringing culture. And it plays a big part into like why the struggle exists. Yeah. Right. And some of that work I do is breaking down to be like the struggle isn’t necessary for the growth. Right. We can be there and let’s talk about why you respond that way.

Why you think that’s the truth. Because again, most truth is just perspective and let’s change the perspective a little bit and then we can start seeing growth. So it’s amazing. Like just the results I get from the small shift. Because now they start to see things in a different light. They start to see the world differently.

They start to see their businesses differently in a way that now they can start creating generational wealth of their own. Yeah. That feels so foreign to ’em that they never saw before, but now they can see it’s impossible and now they have a good framework and task and action to go do to make it happen.

Yeah. So it makes my heart happy to be able to help in that way, because if not, then people are just doing it the hard. Yeah. It like makes my brain short circuit. When I start seeing that I’m like, you guys are making it 10 times way too hard. Like let’s scale that back a little bit and we can do some simple, like my another mantra is always simple, actionable steps.

Yeah. Then we can go make it happen. But some, I don’t know, in our brains maybe cuz we think it’s a complex problem. The complex issue or a complex solution is what’s going to help us get there. Yeah. And so then we wanna do it the hard way and I’m like, right. I guess if you want to, but I have a way simpler method and you guys can make it there a lot 

Bob Wheeler: faster, but that’s too.

That’s too easy. I don’t get to feel the pain. Yep. Well, let me ask you this about helping people make shift. And I have a belief that, you know, when I’m working with clients, yes. They’re carrying their own struggles around money. A lot of ’em have issues around self worth or deserving. Mm-hmm like maybe I don’t really deserve this.

I think there’s a component unconscious that they’re also carrying a few generations with them. Yeah. They may not just be carrying their own doubts of worthiness, but mom and dad, grandpa and grandma. Great grandpa and GRA, like there is generational stuff that we bring in and that we’re not even aware that we’re operating with.

Would you agree with. 

Joe Burns: Oh 100%. Like I try to keep my pulse on this in the psychology world. And even in the science world, they’re starting to prove some of this out, like in science, but 100%. Right. So we show up and we’re like, here’s these things, but this doesn’t feel like I have some clients they’ll call it out.

They’re smart enough. And then they can recognize that it’s not theirs, but they won’t know who’s. It is. Right. So we’ll do some exercises to try to figure it out. But yeah, we bring all this stuff because passed down over and over, over either through stories, genetically right in our cells. But it’s passed down and if we can start calling that out right.

And becoming aware of it, then we know how to fix it. Yeah. Right. It’s like, if we can’t even be aware of what the problem is, it’s really hard to solve for 

Bob Wheeler: it. Yeah. So will you do something that I do? And then I like to encourage people to, do you tell people to talk to their money? Yes, I do. And I love having clients talk to their money.

They’re like what? I’m like go onto your bank account, open up your. Pull out those bills let’s have a conversation. Has money ever told you something you didn’t want to hear? 

Joe Burns: Oh, all the time tells me to talk to people, but I’m like, oh no, no, no, no. Like I have to listen to my own tuition right. When I talk about it.

But I’m the same way, Bob, like, I’ll show those who are watching. Like I have money just sitting on my desk. Right. Here’s the dollar bill. And I literally sit down and journal two actual money. Yeah. The bank account, if you have to. But I like the tangibility of like the actual paper money mm-hmm because we don’t have it enough around, we don’t, you know, and around enough, and if money’s gonna be your friend, then why are we like hiding it in the closet?

And then desk drawers in our wall? Like, why don’t we have it out and present? But yeah, I get told all the time by my money, like to go do stuff and I’m like, but that’s gonna be really uncomfortable. And it’s like, and you said you wanted results. You said you wanted some help. So here’s your. You can take it or leave it.

But I mean, every time I’ve like trusted in that intuition side of me, when I’ve talked to money, I’ve never been disappointed. 

Bob Wheeler: How do you get your clients to talk to money? Like for people listening today, what’s the first step they can do to start this relationship with money? Because I think a lot of people do, they hide the money.

When we use credit cards, it feels the same of charging a dollar as a hundred thousand dollars. There’s no impact. Yeah. You know, you take a hundred dollar bill outta your wallet and break it. And I cry cuz I know it will now disappear into the universe, into the abyss. How do you get started? 

Joe Burns: First, I say, you gotta get some money, like get something like a example, a dollar Bill’s good enough.

But I have like a little framework. I usually give them, which is a five step process to just help them get used to it. Because again, telling people to talk to their money, the first question they always ask me, what do I say? I’m like, okay, we’ll get there. Let’s start this. But if I add in some personal development properties through that, I always start and say, okay, use this tool.

I really like that. I called write and burn or write and tread its like just take out a piece of paper and a pen and just write down all the negative thoughts you have going through your brain right now might need some sentence starters or some sentence stems that will help you get going. But do that, but set a timer for like two minutes.

Like don’t sit there all day in journal. Right. That’s just unproductive. Right. And then when I say burn, you can burn it safely. If you’re gonna do that, like really safe. But a lot of clients, I might just shred it up. Right. Shred it, toss it away, like get rid of that stuff. Have some power statements around money than to say afterwards.

Right. Cause you’re letting a lot of stuff out. So now let’s fill that vacuum up. You’ve created with some positivity. Yeah. The next step is sit down and literally ask your money. Like, Hey, how’s it going today? And you can literally ask questions like this. Hey, money. I remember back when I started, right.

I’m like, hi money. My name’s Joe, how are you? Start? Like, you would a real relationship. If you don’t have a relationship with money, then you gotta start somewhere. Right, right. You just can’t say, Hey man, gimme your deepest dark secrets. Like it doesn’t know you. Right. So it’s not gonna tell you much. Right.

So you might have to start out with some basic questions and then just pay attention as you’re talking to it. And I always have like, say, get a piece of paper and a pen out and just write down whatever you. Now my best question to ask money is, Hey, who can help me today? I have this problem who can help me.

And then the first name that comes to your head, write that down. And then step number four is, go talk to them today now without an agenda of any way, because you never know how those conversations is gonna end up, but go talk to ’em like let’s have conversations with people. We know people are in our networks.

We know a lot of people, so start leveraging them in ways that can help you get to where you want to go. Yeah. And then number five, number five is one of the most important steps to celebrate what happened. Right. That accomplishment energy is really, really juicy. And even if it’s not directly related to what you thought you wanted during the day, it’s going to have some type of, you’re gonna have some celebration you can around that.

Yeah. And if we get in kind of this rhythm of doing these five steps every day, man, we, we can make some real cool stuff happen. Absolutely. And it gives them enough structure that now they’re not feeling so kind of, I don’t know, it’s not too big. It’s not too flexible in like how they talk. And then as they get used to doing that, then I’m like, okay, now ask different questions, right.

Just have a real conversation, get comfortable with this. And as they do it more, as the clients have done that process more, like I say, they start to really have some really cool results going. A few thousand dollars a month too. I had one client a couple months ago. They finally hit their first six figure month.

Nice and actual cash, not just sales, it’s fun to kind of watch the growth that happens and a simple tool that allows their brain to give it some structure and not become overwhelmed with kind of the wooo side of this kind of personal development kind of talking and energy work, stuff like that. So make it easy 

Bob Wheeler: for ’em.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s so important. To like, have fun with it as well. Some of my clients will say, what am I gonna say? I’ll say, open your wallet, talk to your money and say, Hey, listen, I really like you. Could you have some of your friends and family come visit too. I’ve got a great space in my wallet.

I’ve got this really cool bank account that they can hang out with, go out and multiply. Do your thing. It can be fun if it’s uncomfortable, like find ways to make it not so serious. And it’s the last possible chance I have to get my life back together. Like let’s lighten it up a little bit. At least that’s for me.

I want to try and just take away some of that charge around our fear and our stress and our beliefs and our mindset. And for me, having fun with it helps like you talk about disrupt, I call it hiccup, but to just change that sense. Oh yeah. Okay. This is playful. 

Joe Burns: Yeah. I like that. And I’ll do that with my clients as well, because you are red when you asked me to be on your show.

And I saw that I’m like, I dig Bob’s vibe, like the whole comedy piece and just having fun with. Because we are like, this whole conversation can get too serious. Yeah. Like way too serious. And it’s like, yeah, we want to help you. But at the same time, like life can’t be as serious as we’re making it. Yeah.

We gotta have some fun and, and, and I have to continue myself cause I get a little too serious sometimes. Yeah. My wife would remind me, I’ll do weird things sometimes just to like shake up my brain that way too. Yeah. If I find myself in a mood usually, and this is kind of off the money subject, but I’ll like park my car as far away from like the grocery store entrance as I.

And I’ll skip into the grocery store. right. Yeah. And I’m just like, you gotta break it up. Cuz if you’re getting too serious, then we’re gonna start missing things. And our tunnel vision kicks in and life can’t be lived serious. Like it there’s, there’s too much beauty and joy in life that if we live in it too serious, it’s just 

Bob Wheeler: boring.

Yeah. And I think, you know, if we’re not celebrating and enjoying relationships being alive and breathing puppies, whatever it might be, life is sort of painful. Then it is sort of just all about the struggle. And doesn’t feel very hopeful or, you know, we can go down a rabbit hole of darkness if you get so serious.

Even in my worst situations, I still in moments, tried to find the humor and this too shall pass. Eventually I’ll get back to a place where I can look back and go, gosh, that was so dark and crazy. And I made it through life is short. And so we have to celebrate the moments. 

Joe Burns: 100%. Like, it’s kind of funny. My clients actually have a journal.

They sent, showed up in the mail one day and it says, dad joke, catalog. So they know me for my dad jokes. Right. I love like dad joke. Like I’m not a dad. Like we don’t have kids, but the dry humor of dad jokes. So I’m the same way. So I’ll, I’ll like start those off with my videos sometimes. Or like my group coaching clients, we have a slack group we’re all in and they send ’em to me all the time.

Like, Hey, here’s another one for your thing. And we kind of joke back and forth. So I’m the same way. I’m like, I want a little bit of humor in life. If we’re not having fun. If we’re not being joyful in what we’re doing, why are we doing it? There’s gotta be joy. Like no matter what business or you’re doing or there’s however you’re making your money.

If it can’t be fun, then go find a fun way to make it. There’s tons of ways to make money. But you know, the age old addage you happen to be serious and work hard for your money. Like that’s just garbage. Like, yeah, it doesn’t work. It makes us miserable. And we end up doing stuff that we don’t wanna do.

Right. Absolutely. And so find joy have fun. And it’s amazing when you lean into that, how much more money you’ll make. 

Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And let me ask you this. As your fifth step, you talked about celebrate the moments, right? Having this celebration of what happened throughout the day. I’m gonna like leap connected over to gratitude.

To me that celebratory moment is also an expression potentially of gratitude. And I don’t know if that’s true for you. I have found that. As I’ve shifted my mindset to more gratitude and being grateful for things, even things as simple as hot water working today, or having hot water, having running water.

Some of those things that shifted my attitude instead of I don’t have the newest this or that. And I don’t have, why does my friend ha if I can just come from this place of, wow, I’m just happy I’m breathing today. Cool. My car started those little things. Okay. Gas is incredibly expensive right now, but thank goodness.

I was able to buy a tank of gas. Right? whatever those things are. Instead of looking for the negative, trying to still see the celebratory moments, even in the challenges we face. 

Joe Burns: Well, 100% I would do with you a hundred percent. Bob. There’s obviously gratitude underneath that. A lot of people aren’t used to that.

Right. And so I started with accomplishment. Can you see, you did some pretty cool stuff today, like, right. Is that good enough? Okay. Now we can. And then there’s kind of both, I think from my perspective, there’s concepts in both of those, but they’re super, both are super important. We had a coach a long time ago, who kind of said something the same about gratitude and, and he suggested like gratitude journals and that you fill out, like before you go to sleep or something, Hey, what are you thankful for the day?

And one of his things was even if like your spouse, even if you can’t like, if you’re angry at him and just. They did some stupid things that day. He’s like, just say, Hey, I’m grateful that you have like blue eyes, right. Just something just to, to be happy about. Yeah. Cause it is, it’s so important. Cause when we can see the gratitude in things, then we can start to see, Hey, our lives aren’t too bad.

Our problems may feel heavy, but there’s still a lot to be happy for a lot to be grateful for. And there’s a lot of really yummy energy around that that helps us get out of those kind of funky times. 

Bob Wheeler: Yeah. And I also think when we express gratitude, even if they have blue eyes that we’re helping erase the case that we’re building against them.

yeah, 100%. Yeah, because if we’re just busy going and then they did this today, and then this happened for me, the gratitude helps sort of erase the case that I’m making. 

Joe Burns: Yeah. And I think it goes back to like what you said the very beginning when you have your clients and they start like the energy of whatever’s happening within that meeting, you’re like, Hey, let’s get up and dance or move around.

It changes the energy about like what’s being created. Yeah. And if we can add some positivity in there, it breaks it up. And if you think like at a hard candy shell, that negativity will start to harden. But if we can break just to put a little crack in there, then it all crumbles really quick. Yeah, absolutely.

And we’re all like back to like some, all these better vibes and seeing a little bit better outlook on life instead of, you know, just what we don’t have and the same goes for money, right? Like if we can be like, right, Hey, I have this, I have a few dollars. I can, like you said, pay for gas right now. Cuz it’s.

Crazy expensive, but looking at that perspective instead of like, oh, why is it so much? And we’re so angry about all the things we can’t change, we can start focusing on things we can change. Then the world looks a lot better and our goals started to become more attainable. Yeah. Instead of being those things out there where we can’t ever 

Bob Wheeler: reach.

Yeah. I will comment on this because it was a hard adjustment for me. I hate paying for coffee in airports, right. Because $25 and I got maybe a croissant and a coffee and I go ball. And I finally had to shift to, well, I’m grateful that I can pay for it because it’s not gonna change. They’re not gonna drop the prices down to $2 to make Bob happy.

Nope. And I’m not gonna win this fight so accepting, and then being grateful that I could afford it. It’s still a little hard. Yeah. Yeah. But I at least now do it and just go, be grateful, be grateful. Uh, be grateful. 

Joe Burns: yeah, I’m the same way. Like I look at things I’m like, uh, but again, I have to ask myself and that’s where my mantra goes.

It’s never about the money. So what is it about, right. Are we angry? Because we don’t have control over the situation. Are we angry? Because we feel like we’re being gouged. Like what’s the real emotion underneath it. Cause if we could start to solve for that. Yeah. Then life gets a lot easier. I mean, if we’re finding if with croissants and coffee, we’re finding it in other areas of our life as well.

Right. We’re just not acknowledging it. Exactly. So that’s why I always gotta say it’s never about the money. Okay. So what’s it about what is this one thing about why is it irritating me so much? Okay. Now I can go solve for that. And now, like maybe next time it might not irritate me as much. Right? A little bit less.

Bob Wheeler: Exactly. For me, it’s control. I wanna control the world. I wanna control every, every emotion, you know, just a minor thing. There, just a small thing, just a small thing, you know, controlling the world. Well, Dr. Joe, we are at the fast five brought to you by cube money. A cash envelope system made easy, real time financial awareness without the hassles of tracking expenses and carrying cash.

For more information, check out the link on the show notes. So Dr. Joe, we’re gonna shift the energy a little bit. We’re gonna jump into some top of mind questions and let’s see where we land. Cool. Let’s do it. What was the last time you purchased something that immediately regretted it? 

Joe Burns: Oh man, it’s been like probably five, six years ago.

Bob Wheeler: Do you remember what it was? 

Joe Burns: I actually don’t. I remember the feeling and I’m like, yeah, I don’t wanna be there anymore. Right. And, and digging through what I’ve dug through. Right. I’m like, I’m very intentional about it now. Or when that motion starts coming up, I’m like, oh, okay. This is about the money.

Again, it can’t be about the money. So what’s it about, right. So what’s it about? Yep. 

Bob Wheeler: That’s have you ever thrown someone an extravagant. I 

Joe Burns: haven’t, I’m not a party dude, so , I’m not the party flatter. So don’t call me for 

Bob Wheeler: that stuff. Don’t call don’t call. What’s something your brain wants to convince you to do, but you have to fight it.

Oh, 

Joe Burns: anything that involves pain that might be safe. Like my body thinks of like falling. I really wanna do skydiving and I’m still trying to work up to. It’s like just my brain always goes through the extreme and then my body, my nervous system literally feels like what it could be. So if you watch those funny videos on YouTube where people get hurt, but maybe not like really hurt.

Like, I feel that. So I can’t like watch that stuff. like, it just really messes my brain. Yeah. Anything like that. Like my body feels it. Wow. 

Bob Wheeler: Yep. I hear you. I hear you. I’m not gonna do skydiving anytime soon. Which do you listen to most your heart or your brain? 

Joe Burns: Oh my brain. A hundred percent. I’m working on my heart, but my brain rules, the decisions, most of the.

All 

Bob Wheeler: right. And does that mostly serve you or 50 50? 

Joe Burns: Oh, it’s horrible. Like, because I use past experiences to like, make decisions that my heart and my intuition would tell me different. If we had more time, I have a whole Bitcoin story that I could talk about for hours. Right. I had the intuition hit. I should buy in 2010 and I didn’t, and it cost me right.

I mean, where it’s at today, who knows, but. It costs me a lot of 

Bob Wheeler: money yeah. In that moment. Right. Yeah. And fear holds us back from doing some of those things, right. Just that resistance. Oh, heck yeah. It’s uncomfortable. 

Joe Burns: But my heart said, go buy it. Cuz other people really smart are buying it. So it’s probably gonna do something.

And my brain’s like, but it’s like this fake money thing that doesn’t make sense to me. So I shouldn’t do it. And I didn’t do it 

Bob Wheeler: and I don’t understand it. I can’t move forward. 

Joe Burns: Yep. Yep. So my, my wife has teach me more to listen to my heart in those situations and serving me better now. Okay. 

Bob Wheeler: is there something that you really wanted to do as a kid, but didn’t have the opportunity 

Joe Burns: fly?

I always wanted to become a pilot and as the expense goes with that and all that stuff, like never got there. Like I love flying. I love like going on planes and stuff, but never had the opportunity to actually be a pilot. So if I could do it, I’ll go over again. Maybe, maybe. 

Bob Wheeler: All right. We are at our M and M moment, our sweet spot money and motivation.

I’m wondering if you have a practical tip or a piece of wealth wisdom you could share with our listeners, some of this worked for you. 

Joe Burns: I think, like we said earlier in episode, get some cash, have it on you and talk to it like 100%. I could talk all day about different strategies and personal development things that would help.

But if just doing that, even doing it wrong, but there’s no wrong way to do it. Just do that. And your life around money is going to change drastically in even a week. Even after doing it one day, it will change the way you see money forever. Yeah. 

Bob Wheeler: Well, I hope people go out and talk to their money and really cultivate that relationship, cuz I think it’s so.

But, you know what I really enjoyed talking to you about today because I feel like we’re so on the same wavelength about this stuff, is this disrupting hiccuping, our money mindset and just become aware of how emotions play such a role in our finances. Oh yeah. 100%. Right? We tell ourselves it’s just very black and white two plus two is four, but it’s not.

No, because we’re working with the hesitation. We’re working with the fears. We’re working with the brain instead of the heart. Right. And so the more we can start to cultivate the relationship with money because I’m in agreement, it’s a relationship and like any relationship, it’s not a one and done, I fixed it.

Never have to do. It’s a fluid conversation, just like it is with a spouse or a kid or a parent it’s ongoing and you have to adjust and pivot. And even as we’re talking now, you still talk about. I’m learning to do more with my heart. Right? You haven’t, none of us have arrived. No, we’re continually arriving.

Yep. It’s a journey. And the more we can enjoy the journey and have a little bit of fun along the way and accept that it’s a journey instead of I’m just trying to get there. I’m just trying to get there and be done. And so for me, it’s great to hear that even as you work with other people, you’re still learning and evolving as am I, I don’t have it all dialed in.

I still have my frustrations. I still have to say, oh yeah, it’s not about the money. What’s it about, even though I wanna make it about the 

Joe Burns: money. Cause that same here. I still do that too. That’s my mantra. Right. And it’s like, I remind myself, it’s not about the mice, what’s it about like, yeah, it’s a lifelong journey.

And I think as soon as we understand that, then we’ll be happy in the journey. 

Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. So Dr. Joe, you’ve talked about these five steps in talking with your money. Is there a place where the listeners can go to actually find those they 

Joe Burns: can? Yeah, I know we talked about ’em and so to make it so you can actually see them.

I have a PDF. You can go download. If you go to www.peaceandprosperity.com P ACE like find peace in your money, you can download it there for free, and then just print it out. I have little graphics you can put as your wallpaper on your phone, so you can always keep it with you and just follow the steps.

Get it. Awesome. 

Bob Wheeler: Well, we’ll put that in the show notes. That’s a great piece of advice. Cool. Thanks Dr. Joe, where can people find you on social media and online 

Joe Burns: on social media? I spend most of my time in LinkedIn, so the link will be in the notes, but LinkedIn is the best place to get me. And then my website, www.josephmburns.com.

And you can find all the new things I’m doing. There are just a little bit about myself and all that fun stuff there. So, well, Those will be the two best places behind me. 

Bob Wheeler: I so appreciate you coming on today and sharing your story and your perspective, please go out there and keep doing the 

Joe Burns: great work.

Thanks Bob. Yep. That’s the goal and you too. It was great talking to you and this has been a fun conversation. Thank you.

Bob Wheeler: We hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn something new about your relationship to money today? Maybe you have a friend who has some financial blocks or beliefs that are holding them back. Please share this podcast. So they too can get off the roller coaster ride of financial fears and journey towards financial freedom.

To learn how to have a healthy relationship with money. Visit the money nerve.com. That’s nerve not nerd. We’ll be back next week with another perspective on money and the emotions that bind us.