The Cost of Your Financial Story. Michelle Cooper

[00:00:00] Bob Wheeler: Welcome to another episode of Money You Should Ask, where everyone has something they can teach you. I’m your host, Bob Wheeler. In this episode, we are going to explore why we do what we do when it comes to money. As a CPA for the past 30 years. Wait, let me say 25, because that makes me sound younger. I have seen it all when it comes to money and emotions.

[00:00:21] And if you think I’m talking about my clients, I’m not. I’m talking about myself. My relationship with money has been, and sometimes still is, an emotional rollercoaster. Maybe that’s something you’re also familiar with. Good news. You and I are not the only ones. Our next guest is going to share their money beliefs, money blocks, and life challenges as well.

[00:00:43] Buckle your seatbelt and enjoy the ride.

[00:01:06] Our next guest, Michelle Cooper, is a powerhouse entrepreneur, CEO of Alchemy Accounting and Bookkeeping, author of Confessions of a Money Rockstar: Your Money Date Journal, and co-author of the collaborative book, Women Rising. Michelle turned her small accounting firm in rural British Columbia into a thriving online business, encompassing coaching and consulting, speaking, and writing, while balancing the management and growth of a brick and mortar office.

[00:01:30] She has built a solid team of bookkeepers, accountants, tax professinals, and business coaches who support impact driven entrepreneurs to have highly profitable, sustainable businesses while creating the peace of mind that comes from a solid financial foundation.

[00:01:43] Michelle supports the growth of her client’s business with real strategic planning, while also addressing the mindset issues that arise with growth in order to bust through and rise up to the levels they never dreamed possible. Michelle has helped many business owners climb out of entrepreneurial poverty into the land of profit.

[00:02:01] Michelle, it’s so great to have you on the show today.

[00:02:03] Michelle Cooper: Thank you so much. I’m super excited to have this conversation with you, Bob.

[00:02:07] Bob Wheeler: Well, I love that you’re in rural British Columbia. I grew up in a small town in Tennessee, so I like rural. I mean, living in LA and I like that too, but there’s something nice about living in a rural area.

[00:02:17] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. I like both. I like the city and I like the countryside, and I live in a smaller farming community. So it’s really a great place to live and raise a family.

[00:02:28] Bob Wheeler: Is this where you grew up? And tell me about your childhood.

[00:02:31] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, so I grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia. I was born into a commercial fishing family, my parents and my brothers immigrated from England, and my dad got into commercial fishing. My brothers moved into that field as well.

[00:02:45] And so from a very young age, I adopted a belief that I gotta work hard for that money, because commercial fishermen work really hard. I actually remember a time where my brother lost his pinky finger pulling a net up. And like, the net was coming up around a drum, and his finger got in the way, and it ripped his finger off.

[00:03:09] I remember him saying to me, well, that’s the cost of making money. And thinking like, you gotta lose a finger to make money? WHAT?

[00:03:20] Bob Wheeler: Wow!

[00:03:23] Michelle Cooper: So, you know, commercial fishing, I really learned the feast or famine cycle. Cause obviously there’s times where you’ve got lots of fish running and you’re making a lot of money, and there’s times when you’re not. And that became my reality.

[00:03:37] Bob Wheeler: Wow. Do you still like fish? I would imagine you ate lot of it.

[00:03:40] Michelle Cooper: I did eat a lot of it. I actually don’t eat fish anymore. I’ve made a conscious decision not to contribute to the commercial fishing industry. I think my family has taken enough from the ocean without shame or guilt, just what it is. And so I don’t participate in that anymore.

[00:04:00] Bob Wheeler: Awesome. Well, let me ask you this. So you grew up, your brothers went into the business. Did you talk about money as a kid? I mean, you saw that there was feast and famine, but was there discussions? Your parents, what was that like?

[00:04:14] Michelle Cooper: No, we didn’t have conversations about money in my family. I never went without, and I came along as kind of a surprise baby. So my brothers are 14 and 16 years older than me. And so life was a little bit different for me than it was for them.

[00:04:29] By the time I came along, my parents had a little bit of wealth behind them. So we got to do things like go to Hawaii every year, go up to Whistler. Like we had a lot of experiences that would cost a good chunk of change, and it was never a conversation in my family until, my mom passed away when I was nine.

[00:04:51] And so suddenly, I had to learn about money really quickly. I took on a lot of the responsibilities around the house, including grocery shopping. At nine years old, I can remember my dad giving me the checkbook, and we walked over to Safeway, and he talked to the manager and he said, she’s going to be doing the grocery shopping. And she needs to be able to write a check. So whatever you gotta do to make that happen, figure that out.

[00:05:17] And they gave me this little card that showed that it was approved and everything. And I learned really quickly that you had to figure out how much things were going to cost. My dad told me how much I had to spend, and I had to figure that out. It wasn’t like a free for all.

[00:05:32] And then of course you can imagine what a nine-year-old spends on groceries. Like we had lots of Ding Dongs and Hohos in the cart.

[00:05:42] Bob Wheeler: The good stuff!

[00:05:42] Michelle Cooper: Not maybe, maybe so much the meat and potatoes that might be required for a family’s dinner.

[00:05:51] Bob Wheeler: Did that change over time after your dad was like…

[00:05:54] Michelle Cooper: Oh yeah!

[00:05:54] Bob Wheeler: No more sugar cereal.

[00:05:57] Michelle Cooper: Oh yeah. He was like, we need food. Now that I look back on it, it was a very touching thing, because it was the late seventies. So it wasn’t as busy, right? And it was kind of like you knew the people in the neighborhood. And I always remembered the ladies at the Safeway. They really helped me understand, like, this is how you grocery shop.

[00:06:20] And these are the things that you buy, kind of thing. You know, in order to make spaghetti, you need pasta, meat, tomato sauce, maybe some garlic bread. Right? And so I learned pretty quickly that, what I could make, what I couldn’t make, and what I could buy.

[00:06:34] Bob Wheeler: Wow. In some ways like, it’s a double-edged sword maybe, because on one hand, you’ve been burdened with this responsibility at a young age. And on the other hand, in a way, your dad was empowering you saying, I think you’re capable of doing this and I’m going to trust you to like, figure it out and manage it. So in some ways there’s really some empowerment there.

[00:06:54] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. And it really was kind of like a learn by failure situation. He didn’t really have time to show me what to do. It was like, I don’t know, you’re going to have to go figure this out.

[00:07:04] And that transferred into how I kind of figured out my career or figured out having a business, like let’s just get in there and do it. And we’re going to make mistakes. And that’s okay. And we’ll learn from them and we won’t make them in the future. So it was a really good way of me growing up pretty quickly.

[00:07:26] Bob Wheeler: And do you think that that maybe contributed, or the fact that you had a family that was already entrepreneurial in the commercial fishing world, to go out and be an entrepreneur? Like what were you, at nine years old besides thinking of, you know, Ding Dongs and Twinkies, were you thinking, gee, when I grow up, I want to be blank.

[00:07:48] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. My dream was to be a stewardess or as you would call a flight attendant these days, but back then it was called the stewardess. And I thought that was super glamorous, flying around the world and working. And they always looked so glamorous. And I remember when I was about 17, I was saying to my dad, I want to go to this like, travel college thing.

[00:08:09] And he was like, you’re going to university. And I was like, no, I really want to do this. I want to be a stewardess. And he was like, that’s a waitress in the air. You’re not going to do that. And I was like, God, how judgy? But, uh, I kind of went along the path that was laid in front of me and went to university.

[00:08:30] I had this thing with numbers. I could always figure out numbers and stuff. And so obviously accounting made sense. I was kind of pushed along that path, and then I went out into my corporate career and worked around the world. So I did get the travel in. I lived in Indonesia and Europe and Africa and all sorts of places. And then came back to Canada with a husband and three kids. And was like, oh, what are we going to do now?

[00:08:57] And it was hard to have a job and three little people under four.

[00:09:04] Bob Wheeler: Yeah.

[00:09:04] Michelle Cooper: And so my business evolved really naturally. I started helping local friends with their business. They were wondering why they weren’t making any money, why there was no money in the bank. And then that led to referrals. And then all of a sudden I had this accounting and bookkeeping firm that provided, kind of, coaching and analysis and business development support.

[00:09:26] And it’s just evolved from there. That was 11 years ago.

[00:09:31] Bob Wheeler: Wow. And so when you set out, I mean, you talk about that you had a small accounting practice, bookkeeping practice, and then it evolved to this larger online presence. Was there a moment that you decided, geez, this has to go online?

[00:09:47] Was it just an organic thing? It’s like, oh my God, this is just impractical unless I go online. Like, what was the set of events that took you online and expanded it?

[00:09:57] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. So I started getting asked to speak places. So it happened initially, like locally, where the business development group or the chamber would ask me to come in and deliver a talk on financials or kind of like, know your numbers kind of thing.

[00:10:13] And then that led to referrals to other organizations or events, and then I realized I really liked doing that. That was a lot of fun. And so I started applying to speak at places. And so a lot of the places I was doing speaking at within the United States. And that was really exciting for me, but those people would reach out to me and want to work with us.

[00:10:40] And I was like, how do I do this? Like, how do I do business cross border? I am not sure I know how to do this. And so there’s some thinking there, like, why wouldn’t you be able to? Like, just figure it out. And I figured out that I can just hire USA based CPAs and bookkeepers, and that kind of solved the problem. Right?

[00:11:01] And so really, it was me going out and providing education to people that led to more customers coming in, that just naturally evolved into being an online business. Before our, kind of, pandemic lockdown situation, people would have more resistance to working with an accounting or bookkeeping firm virtually. They’re like, I don’t know how that works.

[00:11:28] I like going down to my accountant’s office and sitting in their office and stuff. And I kept saying, no, you don’t have to do that. Like we have this technology in place. Like we can use technology for our advantage. It wasn’t until last year where everybody was forced not to go into someone’s office, that people are like, oh wow.

[00:11:50] For our clients, they were like, my accountant’s already online, this is old news to me. And for new clients, they were way more accepting and open to working with a virtual based company. And so it’s been organic development, but it’s definitely, to me, it’s definitely the wave of the future. Partly because I can employ anybody anywhere. And so I can employ amazing talent and they can live anywhere. It doesn’t matter.

[00:12:18] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. It’s totally great. Same thing for us. We’ve been offering video conferencing for a few years, and some people liked it, but after a pandemic, most people are like, I don’t ever want to come to your office again, Bob.

[00:12:32] Michelle Cooper: Right?

[00:12:32] Bob Wheeler: I’m like, sweet! They’re also not invested in an hour meeting because they didn’t have to pay for parking and make the drive. So often my meetings are a little bit shorter and more efficient. And so I’m enjoying that.

[00:12:44] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, for sure. I agree.

[00:12:46] Bob Wheeler: Now you co-wrote a book, Empowering Women. And, tell me about Empowering Women.

[00:12:53] Michelle Cooper: I think, what I came to understand in my own development, personally, professionally like with, as an entrepreneur, is that we can take on a lot of stories.

[00:13:05] So we inherit these stories, maybe through experiences we’ve had as children or family situations, even we can genetically inherit stories, we’ve come to understand. Right? Through science and stuff.

[00:13:18] And so I saw that I had this feast or famine story, right? And I had this hard work story. And so even though I wasn’t in a feast or famine situation, I would manually create that in my life through overworking or overspending or creating large amounts of debt that I’d then have to pay off. And so I saw in my own life, the power of these stories that we carry and we hold them as our identity.

[00:13:47] And so in doing my own work, I realized that a lot of women and other marginalized parts of our communities, they have a story that’s disempowered around money. And we can even see how, just, if we look at the things that boys are directed to in school versus girls. It might be changing now, but there’s this inherent kind of like, oh, don’t worry about that. You know, your girls, aren’t good with that kind of stuff.

[00:14:18] And if you are good with numbers, well, you should just go and be an accountant kind of thing. Right? And so when I looked at this for myself and I also looked at what happens in communities when women have money, they actually spend it differently.

[00:14:34] So women spend money on community initiatives way more than, typically, men do. And so when women have money, our communities change. And I feel like if we expand that out into the world, our world can use some change. And so I felt like empowering women around money will subsequently have an impact in how our world develops.

[00:15:05] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. You know, it’s interesting because money is such a reflection of everything else. It’s a reflection of our values, our mindset. When I do money workshops, and that’s the doorway, right? People are like, we’re going to talk about money and we’re going to get rich. And then they find out we have to talk about parents, boundaries, self-worth. And they’re like, what the? This is not my… Emotions?

[00:15:31] Michelle Cooper: Our feelings?!

[00:15:31] Bob Wheeler: So I want to go back to that a second and talking about the stories. When we learn our story, when you learned your story, maybe it was different for you, but for me it was not fun.

[00:15:42] Michelle Cooper: No!

[00:15:43] Bob Wheeler: It was not. I went in kicking and screaming and the reason I’m bringing this up is, people out there saying, oh, well you just go do the work. It’s not fun. It was not easy for me. It was ugly having to own some of my stuff. Well, all of my stuff.

[00:16:00] Michelle Cooper: Yeah.

[00:16:01] Bob Wheeler: And really, really painful. I’m saying that not to discourage people, but to encourage them to push through the discomfort. And I’m wondering if you can address that a little bit, because I think people go, oh, if I go out and read half of the book, then I’ll get 50% there. And it’s not like that.

[00:16:19] Michelle Cooper: No, to me, it’s a tumultuous thing to dig into these stories and these emotions and feelings. And so much of it comes down to not feeling good enough, or not enough, and not worthy. And I also feel like I’m not totally sure there’s a ending. I don’t see there being an arrival point where it’s fixed or done.

[00:16:40] Right? So even recently, I was on a meditation retreat and realized that I have a belief around overworking. And overworking has actually served me. And I’ve been rewarded for overworking. So I never connected it with being this kind of limiting belief or kind of limiting behavior, because I’ve been put on a pedestal for overworking.

[00:17:09] I have a million dollar business because I overworked. But it doesn’t mean that that’s the only way I could have achieved those goals. And so then even the understanding of that, and then looking at positions where maybe I’ve been a team member or an employee or something where I’ve been encouraged to overwork, set up to overwork, and then wondering, did that person even care about me? Or did they just care about the result?

[00:17:37] So there’s a lot of different emotions that come into play. I think. And what I’ve come to understand, especially recently, is that our bodies hold this information.

[00:17:48] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely.

[00:17:49] Michelle Cooper: And so I’m like, oh yeah, my body’s like, I don’t feel safe here. I don’t trust this situation. So that’s what, like, I’ve done a lot of work around my story and my mindset and all that kind of stuff.

[00:18:02] And now I feel like I’m tackling some of the residue that is sitting in my body where my nervous system is like, gripping for dear life because I’ve been overworking.

[00:18:14] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. Well, my book and my website is The Money Nerve, because it’s visceral.

[00:18:19] Michelle Cooper: Mhm.

[00:18:20] Bob Wheeler: We hold stuff, we store it. Just like an animal with trauma, we’re people with trauma. And we’re holding all these money stories that impact our health, that impact people having heart attacks, that impact people not getting tested for things because it’s not in the budget. Like there’s so many ways that it manifests in our body. So I’m so in alignment with what you’re saying.

[00:18:44] And I’m, going back to story, to me, the importance of knowing story, because we can still forget we’re in story, like, as you were just mentioning, right? You’ve got a million dollar business and we’ve got these things.

[00:18:57] And I talk about this sometimes where I’ll say, you know, I’m working with a client. I’m like, wow. You know, they did over a million dollars this year. That’s. Oh, yeah, I did too. Okay. Oh my God. Look at that. They’ve got two houses and they’ve got this, like I forget, right? I always exclude myself from, not always, but sometimes I’ll forget. And I’m like, oh, poor me.

[00:19:19] I’m so struggling. No, I don’t think so. And certainly I have struggled, so…

[00:19:26] Michelle Cooper: Oh, haven’t we all!

[00:19:27] Bob Wheeler: Right? But my story is that I’m still struggling. And my mindset still says, it might all go away. But probably from a third party perspective, I might not be struggling.

[00:19:38] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. I think it’s interesting. What you bring up is like, that psycho cybernetic loop, where you’re stuck in the story of being your current reality, even though the evidence shows you that it’s not.

[00:19:49] Bob Wheeler: Right.

[00:19:50] Michelle Cooper: Right? And that’s a really important thing to see. And even question, were you ever really struggling.

[00:19:56] Bob Wheeler: Right.

[00:19:57] Michelle Cooper: Right? Is that just the story, that you have to struggle? So it’s all really good questions to dig into.

[00:20:03] Bob Wheeler: It’s all really good stuff. And then do I want to let go of my story, right? That’s…

[00:20:08] Michelle Cooper: Totally!

[00:20:10] Bob Wheeler: Is the cost or the benefit more impactful? Like what is the cost of holding onto my story? It’s taking my soul if I’m going to stay with that story. And the benefit of letting go of my story is I get freedom.

[00:20:21] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, I was actually having a call with a client the other day. And I was like, are you ready to let go of that? And she wasn’t actually.

[00:20:31] Bob Wheeler: Yeah.

[00:20:31] Michelle Cooper: And she was like, actually, I don’t think I’m ready yet. And I’m like, okay, well, that’s all we need to know. Right? I support clients to kind of like, identify the story and then make a new decision about this thing that we’re working on. But if they’re not ready, then it just becomes this weird kind of fake affirmation that doesn’t…

[00:20:50] Bob Wheeler: Yeah. Doesn’t do anything.

[00:20:51] Michelle Cooper: Like it has no resonance for them, so…

[00:20:54] Bob Wheeler: Well, I think it’s so important that we have to sit in our story after we know that it’s a story, to then at some point go, I’m sort of sick of that story.

[00:21:02] Michelle Cooper: Right?

[00:21:03] Bob Wheeler: I’m ready for something new. Let me, like, get a new book. Let me get a new story.

[00:21:07] Michelle Cooper: Right?

[00:21:08] Bob Wheeler: But sometimes there’s so much comfort in it. Like it’s served me for so long. It kept me from having to step up and be seen. I got to hide from leadership. I didn’t have to be fully in my power. I didn’t have to say no to people. I didn’t have to shine above my friends and be embarrassed that I’m successful.

[00:21:26] Michelle Cooper: Right.

[00:21:27] Bob Wheeler: Like, whatever those stories are. And I think for women, it’s so important to understand their story, because they may be doing crazy making, that has nothing to do with their personal story, but everything to do with the systemic piece. There may be just a gender bias. And no matter how high you jump or whatever, it’s not going to change the bar. Right? The needle’s not going to move sometimes. And I would imagine you’ve had some of those experiences where gender has played a role.

[00:22:00] Michelle Cooper: Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Like I’ve worked for large corporations, like Citibank PricewaterhouseCoopers, KPMG. I’ve worked for medium size chains, like restaurant, food and beverage chains, and travel companies. And then I’ve worked for small, kind of, family owned businesses. And for sure, across the board, there has been a gender bias component.

[00:22:28] And I think that these things are changing, but even, I can remember around like 2008 or so, I was working in a role and, actually a really toxic environment. There was 300 men in the company and me. And it was a lot. And I had to, like, I actually went to a therapist cause I didn’t know about coaching then, but I went to a therapist and she was helping me understand, like, there’s your experience based on your beliefs and your thinking, but then there’s also just the environment.

[00:23:06] And she’s like, it’s important to look at all of these pieces and say, is this an environmental thing? Is this actually a toxic environment? Is this your thinking? It’s probably a combination of both. And it really helped me decipher the pieces. And how maybe I wasn’t showing up, like, more empowered in my role.

[00:23:27] Bob Wheeler: Yeah.

[00:23:27] Michelle Cooper: But also there was a situation going on.

[00:23:31] Bob Wheeler: Right.

[00:23:32] Michelle Cooper: And so I think a lot of times, it’s both. And I do see it changing though. I think it’s changing across the board. I think I saw a study by the SBA last year or the year before. And they said that, I think it was 63% of new businesses were created by women.

[00:23:51] Bob Wheeler: Wow. Awesome.

[00:23:52] Michelle Cooper: Which was really good. So, if we can help those women get out from under these money stories, then we know that they can be more successful and have more impact.

[00:24:03] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. And we also know statistically, women have a higher chance of being in poverty in their senior years. Women live longer than men. Women earn less than men.

[00:24:15] Historically, there’s so many factors, that it is really important to empower women, to make sure that in their senior years, they’re not having to live below their means, or they’re not having to struggle and be able to really make sure that they’re taken care of. That they’ve empowered themselves to take care of themselves.

[00:24:33] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. And take the steps to look after your own financial wellbeing. My daughters are 17 and 19, and I’m encouraging them to start, you know, looking at where they put their money, where they’re investing their money or saving their money, and setting themselves up so that they’re not relying on me or some kind of, you know, partner in the future, right?

[00:24:58] Like it’s fine to have a partnership, but at the same time, we can also look out for our own financial wellbeing.

[00:25:05] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. Well, Michelle, we’re at our Fast Five, which is brought to you by PodMatch, a service that matches ideal podcast guests and hosts for interviews. And I’m just going to give you these five questions. We ask everybody different questions. And let’s just see where we go.

[00:25:19] Michelle Cooper: Awesome!

[00:25:20] Bob Wheeler: Alright. If you could undo one financial decision you made in the last year, what would it be?

[00:25:26] Michelle Cooper: Oh, oh, you know, there was an investment I made in my business that I didn’t need to make. And I was making it out of fear.

[00:25:34] Bob Wheeler: Ah, yeah. Fear plays a big role in a lot of our financial decision-making. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “Money often cost too much.” What do you think this means?

[00:25:46] Michelle Cooper: Money? Oh, definitely the cost on our health. That’s where I am right now. So that’s totally what comes to my brain. But I think to me, I’ve lived in the money world for my whole life, I feel like. And the health is the most important thing. I see that like, so clearly now.

[00:26:05] Bob Wheeler: We so don’t seem to understand preventative medicine and taking care of things so we don’t have to deal with severe health issues. And it does take a toll. Money and emotions. All this stuff impacts our health incredibly, incredibly.

[00:26:21] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, for sure.

[00:26:23] Bob Wheeler: How did you spend money wisely this week?

[00:26:26] Michelle Cooper: Oh, well I hired three new people in my business this week, so I’m super excited about that.

[00:26:32] Bob Wheeler: Cool. And what would you not hesitate to spend a thousand dollars on?

[00:26:37] Michelle Cooper: A flight to see a friend.

[00:26:41] Bob Wheeler: Travel…

[00:26:42] Michelle Cooper: In our pandemic world, right? It’s like trying to connect with someone.

[00:26:46] Bob Wheeler: Absolutely. What kind of car do you drive and did it meet your expectations?

[00:26:52] Michelle Cooper: Absolutely. It met my expectations. Uh, last year I bought a brand new Jeep Wrangler, and I adore it. It is the funnest vehicle I’ve ever driven.

[00:27:02] Bob Wheeler: It is good to treat yourself when you’re making money and having success. There’s no harm in actually giving yourself a little pleasure.

[00:27:09] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, that was my whole thing. It was like, you know what? I’m going to buy a car that’s fun.

[00:27:14] Bob Wheeler: Yeah.

[00:27:14] Michelle Cooper: It’s only got room for me and one person. No kids, no kids allowed.

[00:27:21] Bob Wheeler: There you go. That’s awesome. We are at our M & M, our Sweet Spot, our Money and Motivation moment. Can you give the listeners a practical financial tip or a piece of wealth wisdom? Something that they can, I can do that.

[00:27:34] Michelle Cooper: Totally. Yeah, just a little shift in our relationship with money, which is the foundation of everything I think. A lot of people can have gratitude for money that’s coming in. We all kind of know about having gratitude and how that changes our lives. And I encourage people to have gratitude for the money that is leaving their accounts as well.

[00:27:54] So, how can you express gratitude for that telephone bill, that electricity bill, that whatever bill it is, express the same level of gratitude as you do for the money that’s flowing into your business.

[00:28:07] Bob Wheeler: That’s so important. And you know, that just reminds me, when I was in the early years, you know, I was looking for business and then I was hesitant to pay out to some of my clients.

[00:28:17] I’m like, oh, they charge a lot. Wait a minute. They do an amazing job. This is a great service. This is a back and forth, right? It took me a minute to catch up to realizing it’s a two-way street, right? We need to be in relationship with our business partners, whether they’re clients, whether they’re vendors, whether it’s even family, but it’s needs to be relational.

[00:28:40] And it took me a minute to see that because I was from that mindset of gratitude for what’s coming in. But wait, no, that can’t go out. But that was my scarcity mindset.

[00:28:49] Michelle Cooper: Totally, me too. Right? And that’s where I shifted things. Where I was like, oh, God. Did my team have to work so many hours? It costs so much money.

[00:28:59] And then I’m like, oh my God, like, I’m totally, I’m in scarcity and lack and fear and like, let it go, Michelle. Be grateful for these people.

[00:29:09] And then I started looking at things like my phone bill. Like, I’d be like, damn you phone company, so expensive. And then I’m like, no, I get to communicate with my friends and my family and my clients. I can work from anywhere through this little phone. So let’s have gratitude for it.

[00:29:26] Bob Wheeler: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been such an awesome conversation. I just sort of wanna a recap of what I heard. You know, the biggest takeaway for me was really this, finding our story. And I so resonate with this and I talk about this, but it is so important to know our story.

[00:29:42] And it’s so important to understand that doing the work is not fun always. It’s not always pleasant, but the rewards on the other side are so worth pushing through it. Because that mindset can either propel us or take us out.

[00:29:56] And you know, the other things that I didn’t explicitly hear you say was, I didn’t hear a lot of blame. I didn’t hear blame about, I lost my mom early and, you know, that’s a hard thing, I can only imagine. And being put in charge and doing all these things. And I really hear this place of, well, forced me to grow up. And there was, even though it, maybe it cost your brother an arm and a leg to make money.

[00:30:20] You decided maybe you’d do it a little bit differently. And the gratitude piece, I think, is such an important piece. And I really liked that about making sure we’re grateful for what’s going out as well.

[00:30:31] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, really powerful.

[00:30:33] Bob Wheeler: It’s so important. And I hope that people will check you out. Where can people find you online and in social media?

[00:30:40] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. So alchemyaccounting.ca. We have a special gift for your listeners.

[00:30:45] Bob Wheeler: Awesome.

[00:30:46] Michelle Cooper: Which is at alchemyaccounting.ca/ask. And there’s a little workbook there, which is called Your Money Date. It’s kind of just starting to shift your relationship with money. So they can grab that, and they can find me on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, Michelle B. Cooper or Alchemy Accounting, either, I’m all over the place.

[00:31:10] Bob Wheeler: Awesome. Awesome. Well, we’ll make sure to put all that in the show notes so that people can check that out and get their little freebie and really change that relationship with money.

[00:31:19] Michelle, where can we find your books? You’ve got a couple of books out there and then you’ve got this Empowering Women book. Where can people find those?

[00:31:26] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, so Amazon, anywhere where you can find great books, Amazon, your local bookstore. There’s Confessions of a Money Rockstar, has an accompanying journal, which is called Your Money Date, which the free gift that I’m giving your listeners is abbreviated version of that.

[00:31:42] Confessions of a Money Rockstar is really about uncovering your relationship with money and those stories. And then Women Rising, same places. Amazon, your local bookstore. And it’s a compilation of stories of women who are moving from, I guess, what you could call a victim mentality into an empowered state of being, taking control over their situation and their thinking, and creating amazing success.

[00:32:10] Bob Wheeler: That is incredibly great. And we are going to put all that in, there’ll be links in the show notes, so we’ll be sure and make sure that we give everybody access to that.

[00:32:19] Michelle Cooper: Fantastic.

[00:32:20] Bob Wheeler: Thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure. I really enjoy what you’re doing and what you’re bringing, and thank you so much.

[00:32:26] Michelle Cooper: Thanks so much, Bob, this has been so much fun. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation.

[00:32:37] Bob Wheeler: We hope you enjoyed this episode. Did you learn something new about your relationship to money today? Maybe you have a friend who has some financial blocks or beliefs that are holding them back. Please share this podcast so they too can get off the roller coaster ride of financial fears and journey towards financial freedom.

[00:32:53] To learn how to have a healthy relationship with money, visit themoneynerve.com. That’s nerve, not nerd. We’ll be back next week with another perspective on money and the emotions that bind us.